Being a goth involves...?

Sarky · 06-05-2005 03:00PM

nesf wrote:

Looks at the goth pics...

Heh, heh, heh. Bueno

Big difference between understanding the intricicies of goth culture, and appreciating the finer points of it.

You know me well enough mate to know I have a pretty good idea of the former, you'll just have to excuse me for drooling while contemplating the latter.

Bueno.

Oh, I quite understand.

Tartan, mini-, and skirt are among my favourite 2.5 words...

Metacortex · 06-05-2005 05:33PM

LadyJ wrote:

Hey hey!
Ok,here's the thing,black is my favourite colour and hence I wear it a lot.
However,over the past year or so I've been getting a lot of people telling me I look like a goth.
Now,I have dark hair and pale skin but that's about it really!

Anyway,some guy at a party came up to me last week and said
" My brother would love you". When I asked why he said
"He's into all that ****"
"What ****? Black?",I asked,to which he responded "Led Zepplin and all that rock ****"
Now,I'm not saying I'm not a fan but,tbh, my taste in music is pretty eclectic and I don't wear black because of any musical influence,I just ****in like it! :rolleyes:

So what I'm really asking here is what does it mean to be a goth?
When I wear my black,what is it that people think I believe in or support?
Is anyone here one of them?
Is it anything to do with sacrificing pigs?

It has to do with listening to 'goth' bands. Everything else just seems to be an add on

Lemming · 06-05-2005 06:22PM

Sarky wrote:

Oh, I quite understand.

Tartan, mini-, and skirt are among my favourite 2.5 words...

You forgot boots man!! BOOOOOTS!!!!!

Nyom.

LadyJ · 06-05-2005 06:26PM

See,I actually do wear tartan minis and boots etc but I listen to the frames and **** like that so I dunno!

Sarky · 06-05-2005 06:38PM

Lemming wrote:

You forgot boots man!! BOOOOOTS!!!!!

Nyom.

Oh, I rarely manage to work my gaze that far down...

Nevyn · 06-05-2005 06:49PM

LadyJ wrote:

Maybe I'll go to Fibbers like a good goth!

Goths dont go to fibbers , try Dominion

http://ns.gothic.ie/sites/

http://www.darkwaver.com/subculture/common-culture.php

[quote = http://www.scathe.demon.co.uk/fastgoth.htm]
A brief guide to Goth
What is goth?
Goth is an alternative subculture; it is both a style of music and a fashion, like Punk. People who listen to the music don't necessarily dress in the style, and people who look like goths don't necessarily like the music either - a lot of metal fans have adopted the goth look, making for a great deal of confusion.

However, on the rare occasion that someone looks like a goth and likes goth music, chances are they're actually a goth.

Especially if they deny it.
Where did the name come from?
The name originally came from a Germanic tribe (ie the Goths). The Romans regarded them as barbaric and uncultured, much like the Vandals. "Gothic" was later applied to a style of medieval architecture by critics who regarded it as similarly barbaric and uncultured (something similar happened with the term "Vandal"). The term was later applied to a late 18th/early 19th century style of literature which had a fascination with death and the supernatural.

The term "Gothic" was first applied to the music which is now considered "goth" in about 1979- see the name page for details.

Later on, the term "Goths" or "Gothic Punks" was applied to fans of the music, particularly those that had the gothic look.
What is the "Gothic Look"?
The early goths looked similar to punks, except that the predominant colours were black for hair & clothing (with the occasional outburst of white, red or purple) and silver for jewellery. Thus they had ripped clothing, and even mohicans, though the "Goth Mohican" was usually black and much wider than the punk version (shaved at the sides only). They also tended to spout a lot of fishnet (more usually on the arms for men) and had a distinctive style of makeup, with very white faces and lots of black eyeliner (for both men and women). Hair was usually dyed black, crimped and backcombed.

At first the hair was usually fairly short for men, backcombed up, but by the mid-to-late eighties long black hair became fashionable and it's now more usual to see hair long & down than shaved at the sides & spiked up. Makeup remains an integral part of the look, but clothing has diversified so that some now wear clothes influenced by 18th or early 19th century styles whilst others wear PVC, leather & fishnet. (crushed velvet tends to be another goth favourite). And some of them wear both, though not usually at the same time. Black and white remain the predominant colours, with red or purple still making an appearance. Distinctive fabrics tend to be silk, crushed velvet, leather & PVC.
What does Goth music sound like?
The first goth music grew out of punk, and some of the early bands were very lively, characterised by tribal drumming. Things changed in the mid-eighties, mainly due to the rise of the Sisters of Mercy, probably the most well-known goth band. The Sisters were characterised by deep vocals, simple yet prominent basslines, and simple drum machine rhythms. Unfortunately they came to typify the "Goth Sound" and too many later bands followed their example.

Later on, there was some crossover with the Industrial scene, and a lot of bands now use electronic sounds as well as the archetypal guitar/bass/drum machine/vocals.

In the late 90s, "cybergoth" became very popular, essentially a mix of goth-style vocals with a dancey backing. Whether this is a subgenre of goth, a subgenre of industrial, or a mixture of both is a vexed question, but overall the scene seems to lean more towards the industrial side of things.

There is also a fair bit of "ambient" goth, characterised by subtle instrumentation and haunting female vocals.

Lyrically, goth tends to be on the doomy side- dark lyrics and a doomy sound are fairly typical of most (but not all) goth these days.

[/quote]

sounds like you were chatted up by a desperate idiot that hardly knows his arse from his elbow and instead of trying something intresting to talk to you about went for the first assumption his little brain could cope with after
it registered you had tits.

Nevyn · 06-05-2005 06:55PM

http://www.goth.net/goth.html wrote:

Why do people become goths?

Most goths become goths because they have been spurned by 'normal' society because the way they want to live their lives does not fit in with how most people are told to live theirs. Goths are free thinkers, people who do not accept the moral rules of society because they're told 'This is just how it is' or 'This is what God says!'. Rather goths tend to listen to what you have to say, and make up their own mind. This kind of free thinking and rejection of dogma earns only rejection in todays society.

However because of this rejection from 'normal' society, goths have banded together to associate with other free thinkers. This has a beneficial effect on both the individual and society as a whole. For the individual they have a sense of belonging, and friends they can associate with. For society it removes one more misfit filled with rage from society's streets.

This of course is not the case for all goths. Many goths today are goths for a variety of other reasons. They like the music, or the clubs are better, they have goth friends and joined in with them, or they just like staying up late nights and goths are the only ones awake to talk to.
The gothic stereotype

Many stereotypes of goths exist these days. It seems everyone has their own way to define 'what is goth'. From the stereotypes based on clothing to music right up to the stereotypes of all goths being satanists or part of some kind of cult. Categorically, all of these are false.

The goth scene is just as widely varied as society in general. There are many different professions represented in the scene, from highly skilled professionals like doctors and lawyers, to tradesman, to technically minded people to clerical workers. Many different musical tastes exist (and not all of them goth, there is a HUGE 80's following in the goth scene for some reason). The fashion varies vastly from goth to goth from the traditional flowing victorian style garments to the buckled and studded style regalia (also called industrial style, which is often closely related with goths, and have come to an understanding of co-existance, if uneasily at times).
How do I get into goth?

This is the simplest part of the page. Go check out our Community section over on the left, and use it to find out whats going on in your local area. Goths tend to be accepting and open minded. Just turn up to a club or event wearing all black and your already in the goth scene. You'll pick it up as you go along (just a hint though, lay off the vampire comments!).

The gothic sense of humour is highly developed, and often leans toward the satirical. Quietly laughing at the more idiotic and less tolerant factions of society that seem to think yelling out of cars at us makes them cooler. Goths have learned to laugh at themselves and see society in a much different light. They have had to, and it is a trait most would not give up.

Goths have for the most part (not unanimously of course, but mostly) dropped all forms of prejudice. Noone is afraid within the goth scene to come out as being gay, and noone has to hide their religion for fear of scorn from their peers or zealots wanting to convert them from the arms of Satan. In fact because of these facts (and the general lack of prejudice) the goth scene has a large proportion of gays/bisexuals, and followers of non-mainstream religions and views. This of course is the most important aspect of gothdom, and why most goths became goths in the first place, tolerance.
But they think weird!

Ah, but this is the beauty of goths. Most subjects that are taboo in 'normal' society are freely discussed and debated about. Death, religion, magick, mysticism, and many other topics that are only roached carefully outside of the gothic community. Most goths have realised that fear is only a reaction instilled in us by dogmatic propaganda, and once you realise there is nothing to fear from the topic, whats to stop you discussing it?

Goths often revel in the fear given to them by society as a whole. Often the behavior exhibited by society to them based on society's perception of them from stereotypes, rumour, etc are a constant source of entertainment. Of course, most of the rumours are totally unfounded, goths are people like everyone else, however when you already have a reputation, going for the shock factor is often far too tempting to see how much society at large is willing to believe (or deduce) with only a little encouragement.

This does not totally fall away once you get inside the scene unfortunately, and goths are all too often tempted to try for the shock factor within the scene (which turns out more tacky than shocking). Goths when you get down to it can be a rather pretentious bunch, trying for those extra 'goth points' on the gothier than thou scale, but it adds to the enjoyment.

If you want to know more there are plent of rescourses out there including the yahoo mailing list iegoth.

LadyJ · 06-05-2005 07:02PM

Thanks for that indepth definition! I really doubt anyone who's ever commented on my apparent "gothic" look has any idea what they're on about!

Sarky · 06-05-2005 07:04PM

Also, find a card game called Chez Goth.

Civilian_Target · 06-05-2005 09:40PM

Being a goth generally makes a woman look hotter TBH. There are still some goth mingers though...

Good goth -> http://www.thewendyhouse.org/apr05/apr31.htm
Bad goth -> http://www.thewendyhouse.org/apr05/apr16.htm

I'm not a goth, but would be tempted, I have to admit, I've enjoyed Dominion a couple of times, been to The Wendyhouse in Leeds, one of the UKs biggest goth clubs and enjoyed it immensly every time. I'm not a goth myself, but quite like the music, and wearing black, and it makes a change for the drab ordinary. Yay for goths!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_fashion

StupidLikeAFox · 06-05-2005 10:18PM

You can almost taste the stereotype off this thread

heres some more

SpAcEd OuT · 06-05-2005 11:15PM

goths are bad for society they should be exterminated.

whats their obsession with Central Bank?

the rockers that hang out with central bank are complete faggots I remember one time I was walking through with my mate and there was an auld fellow with a microphone preaching about jesus and christianity and **** and they all started throwing bottles at him (this fellow was 75+!)

Needless to say me and my mates sorted them out then as were leaving they shout "oh go suck the corprate devils dick you trend following knackers"

WEIRDOS.

Nightwish · 06-05-2005 11:39PM

just cos some goths may appear to dress alike does not mean they are all alike. as mentioned before i dress in gothic style clothes and tbh i find the ones around the central bank fairly amusing, purely because they are all wannabe's. in any "trend" there are always wannabe's and there are always the originals and its telling the difference that matters.

Dreamcatcher · 07-05-2005 12:29AM

You know what? I think that the simulated ivory make-up etc. of a "goth" is actually quite a subconciously racist attitude.
I mean, there can be no such thing as a dark-skinned person being a "goth" because in general black people do not have that option - ie of being welland going around being "miserable" and "depressed" as a chosen way of life, off enough and privileged enough to afford to adopt and take the piss out of people who are genuinely struggling in their lives, and do not have the time or the means to wear "the look" that says, superficially, fashionably, "I am miserable", "I am "depressed" ". SUCH CRAP. Such a two fingers to the people who are really battleing with a mental illness....

To me it is a cultural phenomenon, expecially nowadays, in the form of a young(usually offspring of rich parents) -person being a neo-goth.

When I was 14, my creative-with-make-up cousin decided that I had the features to make an excellent goth and she applied the pale make-up and some kohl eyeliner and I wore a black coat and she took pictures of me and I did look like a goth,(I also had the slightly blazee(sp?) attitude to match :rolleyes:)

But now my opinion now of a goth is that it's basically quite a racist/right wing stance to adopt, wittingly of unwittingly... just take a look at the strormfront website and they use a "gothic" font for their logo - link was posted in Humanities recently.

Also someone said that a modern "goth" has a sort of hippie(read=laziness in this context) attitude on life....
hmmm, doesn't really make sense. A "hippie", laid-back lover of nature is NOT a racist.

To me, especially these days, being a goth implies that one is right-wing, and is a white-supremicist. If you are a teenage goth in this day and age, then that's the message that you are sending to the outside world imo - wearing ivory make-up etc.
Some of the earlier music was good I admit, but I have to ask the question of any "goths" or more likely "neo-goths" who happen to be are reading this, "Are you right-wing?" "Would you admit to being racist...have you even considered the possibility that this is how you come across..? Do you care.... probably not... cos you are a "goth", roight!?

Lemming · 07-05-2005 01:03AM

Dreamcatcher wrote:

pscyhobabble excrement

wtf?!!

jesus_thats_gre · 07-05-2005 01:30AM

LadyJ wrote:

I just find it so aggrivating the way people are judged by their clothes!
****in hell,if I always wore green would I be considered a crazed patriot?!

Just do a search for "tracksuits" and "knackers"

and you will see it works both ways..

Dreamcatcher · 07-05-2005 01:38AM

Lemming wrote:

pscyhobabble excrement
wtf?!!

You're obviosly confused, making the (_?_) mistake that I said this........
..Where...what....nah?

.................There's a good little boy, well past your bedtime...there, there.

Talliesin · 07-05-2005 01:49AM

Dreamcatcher wrote:

You know what? I think that the simulated ivory make-up etc of a goth is actually quite a subconsiouly racist thing.

Okay, I could just about buy this as a possibility in some cases. At the same time though subcultures will develop within particular ethnic groups and may or may not spread from there (the only people I know that listen to Latvian folk music are white, but I really don't think they're racist) and certain looks will work better with certain features and skin tones.

Dreamcatcher wrote:

I mean, there can be no such thing as a dark-skinned person being a "goth" and going around being "miserable" and "depressed" as a chosen way of life.

No, not all goths go around being miserable and depressed (whether in scare-quotes or not) but that beside there are subcultures more associated with other ethnic communities that are open to the darker aspects of life as well. Black goths aren't unheard-of, but pretty rare, but that's no differernt from white blues guitarists with any talent.

Dreamcatcher wrote:

To me it is a cultural phenomenon, expecially nowadays, in the form of young -person being a neo-goth.

It's a cultural phenomonon? Really, and there was me thinking goth was something you could test for in the womb. :rolleyes:

Dreamcatcher wrote:

But now my opinion now of a goth is that it's quite a racist stance to adopt, wittingly of unwittingly... just take a look at the strormfront website and they use a "gothic" font for their logo.

This is such a failed attempt a logic I wonder if there's any point trying to refute it, but here goes anyway.

That's a different sense of the word "gothic", rarely found amongst goths, goth bands etc. musically much more often found amongst metallers (and yes, it's found amongst far-right bands like Blood and Honour too, which brings me to the next point).
Stormfront and other neo-Nazis deliberately try to lay claim to aspects of the cultural heritage of European people because it suits their political purposes to do so, hence gothic lettering (though ironically while the proper Fraktur script was popular in the beginning of the Third Reich the fact that no one in occupied Europe could read the bloody stuff led to it being banned by the Nazis and condemned as Judenlettern ["Jewish letters"]), celtic crosses, runes (especially Sigel and Algiz Eolhx), sunwheels, 777, St. George's Cross, and just about every symbol used by the Roman Empire prior to the 4th Century CE. That they sometimes succeed is the responsibility of culturally-illiterate morons for believing what the neo-Nazis have to say rather than what historians and those who used the symbols first and their descendants have to say.
Stormfront and other neo-Nazis deliberately try to subvert youth subcultures with a particularly strong white membership. There is nothing inherently racist about being a soccer fan, and skinheads where originally English white kids that hung out with English black kids and together mixed the Ragae and British pop sounds they'd inherited from their respective parents to produce Ska, Two Tone and Oi, yet both of these were successfully subverted by the neo-Nazis for a while. They've had less success with Goth in comparison, probably because extrovert "did you spill my pint?" violence doesn't fit with the Goth thing (S&M and vampire eroticism is popular with a notable subset, but that's still not all Goths and still a very different type of violence, whether that word even applies is debatable), and hence they aren't prime material for turning into streetfighters.

In all I prefer not to follow the neo-Nazi's view on whose cultural property something is.
Contra that, male use of make-up, female use of heavy make-up and playing with sexual ambiguity are all things that would have been frowned upon by the Reich.

Dreamcatcher wrote:

Also someone said that a modern "goth" has a sort of hippie attitude on life....

Very much my experience of goths (for the record I'm also someone who likes black clothes, and there'd be some goth music that fits within my rather catholic musical tastes, but I'm not a goth).

Dreamcatcher wrote:

hmmm, doesn't really make sense. A "hippie", laid-back lover of nature is NOT a racist.

But black people just can't have hippie hair without a hell of a lot of chemicals, the use of which have been condemned by many black political leaders as internalised racism. Neo-nazis have attempted to infiltrate the sort of ecological movements popular with the hippies' modern successors. They wear Doc Martins and drive Volkswagons :eek: See, the same rhetoric you've used about goths can be used about hippies.

Dreamcatcher wrote:

To me, especially these days, being a goth implies that one is right-wing, and is a white-supremicist. If you are a teenage goth in this day and age, then that's the message that you are sending to the outside world - wearing ivory make-up etc.

Dreamcatcher wrote:

Some of the earlier music was good

Does this mean that you are a right-wing white-supremecist, or just that you think some of the earlier right-wing white-supremecy was good.

Dreamcatcher wrote:

"Are you right-wing?" "Would you admit to being racist...have you even considered this possibility that this is how you come across..?

Well again, I'm not a goth myself, but I do know that there is the occasional moron out there who would think that I'm a racist on the grounds that I have a shaved head (yes, after one look they'll assume I'm someone who makes judgements on people after one look, the ironing is delicious, the really funny thing is it's only ever white people who think that, maybe people of other ethnicity learn to spot racists better but the only reaction to my look I've ever had from black people is the occasional request for grooming tips when I've just shaved it and its nice and smooth). But then there's no look that won't bring about some stupid assumptions in someone, there's no point fighting that, so people might as well go ahead and be goths if they want.

Talliesin · 07-05-2005 01:59AM

Dreamcatcher wrote:

Such a two fingers to the people who are really battleing with a mental illness....

Ah, depression, been there, done that, dealt with the ****, came out the other side.
And really, as someone who has dealt with that I find your pseudo-intellectual sub-Dr. Phil psychobabble insulting, but not the fact that someone who may not be depressed (for some goths it is partly a matter of dealing with the extent to which their struggle with depression or mental illness does or does fit in with the rest of their personality, for some it is not) choose to wear black clothes and listen to Fields of the Nephilim.
Not that the entire goth thing is always morbid, it has its bouncy, chripy side too.

nesf · 07-05-2005 05:19AM

Talliesin wrote:

Ah, depression, been there, done that, dealt with the ****, came out the other side.
And really, as someone who has dealt with that I find your pseudo-intellectual sub-Dr. Phil psychobabble insulting, but not the fact that someone who may not be depressed (for some goths it is partly a matter of dealing with the extent to which their struggle with depression or mental illness does or does fit in with the rest of their personality, for some it is not) choose to wear black clothes and listen to Fields of the Nephilim.
Not that the entire goth thing is always morbid, it has its bouncy, chripy side too.

I have depression

I listen to cradle of filth.

This does not make me a goth.

Oh and to dreamcatcher, to be honest mate, people who actually have depression/mental illness couldn't care less about goths who like to think they have depression. Honestly, if you suffer from depression you don't care about anything, including yourself. Nevermind what some 16 year old kid is doing.

Really, you make a song and dance about it but you really show that you have not met a goth. Or ever participated in their culture.

Goths don't worship depression, or belittle it. They seem to appreciate some of the wothlessness of life that depression brings to a person. Personally I don't think they know two ****s about what depression actually is for a sufferer, but compared to the rest of this ****ing country they care.

From your post, you either a) have little or no understanding of what you are talking about or b) are talking ****.

Either way, it doesn't work, so please drop the whole "holier than thou" bull****. People with actual problems get on with their lives and don't get angsty with others for not understanding what they've never experienced. People who've never suffered depression don't understand what I've gone through. Thats fine, I don't blame them. I have no idea what it's like to be blind. I've always had my sight and I'm glad and thankful that I have it.

You interpret a subculture as giving the two fingers to people with mental illness. You obviously have not had to live with a mental illness and survive alone in this country. Once you see the stigma and bull**** that the rest of the country has against mental illness, then you really see that the goths really don't matter.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Talliesin · 07-05-2005 10:04AM

nesf wrote:

Personally I don't think they know two ****s about what depression actually is for a sufferer

No, some know only too well. Of course this goes for other subcultures too. I agree there's no particular link between the two.

nesf wrote:

but compared to the rest of this ****ing country they care.

Agreed.

Lemming · 07-05-2005 11:51AM

Dreamcatcher wrote:

You're obviosly confused, making the (_?_) mistake that I said this........
..Where...what....nah?

.................There's a good little boy, well past your bedtime...there, there.

Dreamcatcher, dearest, the only person that brought up racism was you. Now I have no doubt that there are some goths out there who are racist. Of course there are a lot more people who aren't goth who are racist.

So quite bluntly, what you said was the most racist thing I've heard on this thread. You have made a racist issue of this. No one else did. possibly because noone else read such into it. It's like children. Children wont look at skin colour. They learn that from adults. Same here (only without the children bit). You bought it into the discussion.

Civilian_Target · 07-05-2005 12:26PM

Lemming: Your signature is appropriate for your argument with dreamcatcher

case n basket · 07-05-2005 01:03PM

Marts wrote:

SOME goth chicks are hot, no question about it, but only some can pull it off right, case in point, check put the pic I posted on here a bit back,here are some examples of where it does work tho

They're hot (bar number 3, who is minging) because they are good looking people, not because they are dressed up like the walking-dead.

Sarky · 07-05-2005 01:07PM

Talliesin wrote:

Not that the entire goth thing is always morbid, it has its bouncy, chripy side too.

GLEE!

http://www.opusgames.com/dorktower/pics/gilly1.jpg

Piste · 07-05-2005 01:58PM

If anyone has seen Manson's video to Tainted Love they must agree with me that just about all the goths in that video are hot. (Now please don't go telling me Manson Isn't a goth, I KNOW)

A girl in my year came up to me a while ago and asked me was I a goth:

Girl: Are you a goth?
Me: What do you mean?
Girl: Em...do you listen to goth music?
Me: What *is* goth music?
Girl: *giggles* I dunno.....
Me: LOL, no, I'm not a goth.

I havent a clue where this girl got it into her head that I was a goth, she's only seen me out of my school uniform a few times so maybe a have the *attitude* of a goth.......dear lord someone kill me now.

The fact is, if you actually know someone, it is MUCH harder to categorise them than if you just see them on the street. Sure, I like Bauhaus but I don't wear that much black, I seldom wear makeup and I'm far too loud, happy and perky to be a stereotypical Goth. Sure I get depressed sometimes, doesn't everyone? But I don't try to draw everyone into that and show everyone that I hate the world (cos I dont)

--Kaiser-- · 07-05-2005 03:42PM

Dreamcatcher wrote:

my opinion now of a goth is that it's basically quite a racist/right wing stance to adopt, wittingly of unwittingly

....

To me, especially these days, being a goth implies that one is right-wing, and is a white-supremicist. If you are a teenage goth in this day and age, then that's the message that you are sending to the outside world imo - wearing ivory make-up etc.

I've read this post several times and I can't find any rational argument as to why wearing black clothes and white make-up make you a white-supremacist, although your post did set me laughing for a good few minutes

Talliesin · 07-05-2005 03:47PM

--Kaiser-- wrote:

I've read this post several times and I find any rational argument as to why wearing black clothes and white make-up make you a white-supremacist, although your post did set me laughing for a good few minutes

Yes, it's a pity "Post of the Month" never really took off, that one's a winner.

Dreamcatcher · 07-05-2005 04:33PM

Talliesin wrote:

Yes, it's a pity "Post of the Month" never really took off, that one's a winner.

:eek: Oh, my sincere apologies for that post I made last night. I was in the pub earlier, had a few too many I'm afraid(so shoot me...).
What came out I admit was complete rubbish. Don't know what I was thinking! Very very sorry if it offended anyone!

I'm pissed off with myself now. :mad:
I'd actually set out to make a whole different point on the whole cultural phenomenon of "being miserable" which I feel was a relevant point... which I'm not going to go into here, as it's the wrong thread and the wrong forum even!
Anyway, sorry again.

I really have NOTHING against goths - they just look a bit scary maybe!

* alka-seltzer, goes back to bed *

cletus · 07-05-2005 05:45PM

I think its funny, the use some terms here as if they are interchangable. I got called Goth, hippy, mosher, rocker when I was younger, and they were all used pretty much as insults. I like music, period.
I have been known to wear black nail polish/eyeliner( i'm a fella, by the way). I've also been known to wear flares( a lot more often, mind you, than the make up). My hair is long and I have some kinda strange jewelery
i listen to everything from Lacuna Coil, Tool, System of a Down to Dylan, Buckley(jeff & Tim), Devendra Banhardt, whatever as long as its good.
I don't think I've ever labeled myself as any of the above, though plenty of other people have.
I also think its kind of funny how kids try to be different in their dress etc., and then congregate with loads of other kids who look the exact same.

Anyway just my two cents

Being a goth involves...?

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