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to drink or not to drink
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elivsvonchiaing wrote:
You said: don't think alcoholism is about how much one drinks/drinking patterns. Its more about how one behaves towards others - while drinking - and even days after
I say: i don't agree with that... alcoholism is a state that needs to be treated. being a misbehaving drunk is a state that should be avoided. a person can be an alcoholic without necessarily being bad to others or really affecting others very much (excluding the collective unconscious effect... obviously
Think you are completely wrong here. When it comes to drunks - really think this only is confined to interlationships; Some poor old bastard with cancer of the everything; with no family; why shouldn't he/she have the moral right to drink himself/herself to death?
Alcoholism is about interrelationships - either that or electricity comes from electrons or morality comes from morons!
Who said anything about people having the right or not to drink themselves into death? I said earlier, i have no problem with people doing whatever they want to themselves... though it does effect the collective unconscious and general energy of the world, but that's a different rant.
Alcoholism is an ill state or a disturbance that manifests intellectually, emotionally and physically. It affects relationships too but it's not defined by them.0 -
yeah i've had it said to me: you don't drink? what do you do? so do you go out?
I mean, jeebus, of course I go out and frankly i think i have a better time than the ones that are polluted. go ahead and disagree, that one's wide open! :-)
i also drive so am desired-designated driver, but that doesn't mean i don't feel perfectly justified sneaking out with the most sober of my mates so that i can drive in peace and not have drunken morons puke in the car.
Alcohol in Ireland is used as such an excuse, it's unreal. oh, and unforgiveable unless you're new to drinking and you haven't a clue. and those of you expecting sympathy for a hangover? what did you think would happen? face up to it or don't do it.
So, anyway, drink if you wan to, but please don't kid yourself that
a) you need it to have fun
b) you need it to relax
c) it's a sociable thing to do or it's a social lubricant
d) it's no harm
e) it's worth the harm/damage
f) it makes you big and strong
okay, well maybe f) is true 0 -
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Ida wrote:So, anyway, drink if you wan to, but please don't kid yourself that
a) you need it to have fun
b) you need it to relax
c) it's a sociable thing to do or it's a social lubricant
d) it's no harm
e) it's worth the harm/damage
f) it makes you big and strong
okay, well maybe f) is true
A: I do
B: I do
C: Yes it is, try it.
It's no harm your right there.
E: Errrr. damage? In what way? To your brain? Liver? Remember u live once and today u might be knocked over and killed while crossing the road sober or drunk.
F: Depends if yur one of those moronic aggressive drunks.
Drink makes me happy and thats all there is to it.
Trebor either join the crowd or find yurself some mates who don't drink. Problem solved
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right, have to log off this thread before the circles become ever smaller...
but hey, i feel like giving some background to my opinions so you can better judge them (and me, if you are really stuck for something to do and the offy's closed)...
i started drinking at 14years old, just beer, then progressed onto cider, which i drank a lot of, sometimes in the pub, sometimes the streets, beach parties, friends places, whatever... at 16 or 17 or so i was onto vodka, but was not rich so there were only about 4 drinks on a night until i was 18 when i could do a lot better than 4 drinks a night. i was still on the cider now and then... can't really remember, didn't document at the time :-)
at 19 i was going out every night and drinking lots, i had a job and money and time and mates that were in the same position. i had a ****in great time and got very very drunk. i never forgot anything, to the best of my recollection :-), and rarely puked - so rarely i can only think of only one occasion. we would go to the pub, then a club, then a wine bar, then play pool, then back to work at 10am or whatever. that was an average night. i didn't have a drink problem... but that's precisely why i stopped. i didn't, and don't, want one. a drink problem is a big tough problem.
when i was 19, in september, i stopped drinking alcohol and i have been more and more happy with that decision as i grow older. it's been 9 years now. i realised that drink wasn't helping me in any way and in fact was hindering me. i was spending money on it that could be spent in better ways. i was suffering hangovers almost every day, not incapacitating, but inconvenient. i was growing up and drink was not making the job easier or more fun, it was wasting my time, my mind and my energy. stuff happened that year to change my life and drink didn't make it better, it just became a nuisance, a distraction.
so i stopped and got clarity of mind. i lost my vodka belly and realised who were my drinking buddies and who were my buddies. i still see my mates from then and am very close to them. i go out all the time with drinkers, i know no-one that doesn't drink. i have an excellent time with them, full of laughs and frivolity and full of intelligence and fascination.
now that i'm 28 and my friends are also getting older, they are turning to me and telling me how right i was and how they want to talk to me about stopping the drink. they talk to me about the drink culture in ireland and how difficult it is to try not to drink. i never expected that ever. i did it for myself and not for how it would effect anyone - the thought never crossed my mind. but it does effect people. i never talk about it with them unless they ask me... and they do. i don't like talking about it that much as it's boring to me, it's old news baby, i've moved on.
i got into the discussion here as it's easier to just sit down at the 'puter and type at the speed i am able and then turn it off without having to listen to the defences of the drinkers. it's so obvious when they hear i don't drink alcohol and they immediately tell me why they do.. it's so obvious they are justifying it for themselves. anyhow, who said i wanted to know in the first place - i usually say: i don't really care why you drink dude, do what you want.
rant over... i thnk. i may change my mind later if you're real lucky
one of my mottos/mantras/things i think:
live every day as your last for you may die tomorrow
today is the first day of the rest of your life
do whatever you want to do for you, but always always seek to burst the bubble of illusion. and all of reality is an illusion... it's just a consensus, remember, no-one knows what the fuc1k is going on.0 -
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Well, no wonder you have a negative attitude towards alcohol Ida, you've abused it way more than I ever have. I didn't start drinking till I was almost 17-18 and, I've never had a stage where I was "i was going out every night and drinking lots"(well other than race weeks in Galway:D).
It doesn't bother me in the slightest if someone drinks or not but it does bother me if someone starts nagging others about it, like the auld biddys who ring in to RTE complaing about the Late Late show or some other crap.you find stupidity interesting and funny.. and drink is known to kill brain cells. hmmm.. coincidence?
As for finding stupidy funny, there's lots of things I remember myself and my friends doing/saying while well-on/locked over the years that you could consider stupid or mad but they make me laugh even thinking about them. We still joke about them....."do you remember the time that such and such did......", etc......
Is there something wrong with that in your view?
It's all about finding how drink works best for you. I personally have no interest in drinking every night and wouldn't drink at all if I wasn't heading out (which would be every so often or sometimes I go out every weekend for a few weeks in a row).
You say alcohol bestowing confidence is an illusion. I agree, confidence is just a state of mind and I feel more confident when I've had a few. It's an accepted fact, (I'm going to have use the words "from experience", before you try and contradict me), that you do alot more chatting up and get on better when you're not sober. Well accpeted by the people I know anyway.it's so obvious when they hear i don't drink alcohol and they immediately tell me why they do.. it's so obvious they are justifying it for themselves
Lol. Reread you're posts, it seems you're the one who's been trying to justify not drinking. People just responded to your comments.
Finally, I think it has to be pointed out to you that you never really drank as an adult, your basing your opinions on your teen drinking years that spiralled out of control till you "were suffering hangovers almost every day" at 19. You realised you were developing a problem and stopped, which seems to have made you happier. Good for you.
Unfortunately (for the non-pioneers on this thread:D), as you've had a better life since you stopped drinking you're belief system has become hard-wired with the view that drinking is a terrible thing(which it probably was for you) with no practical benefits...... based on what? Your experiences as a teenager? :rolleyes:
People drinking too much when they're too young, experiencing peer pressure and haven't a clue about themselves or the world around them, is not going to be a positive experience for them.
For an adult, on the other hand, fully aware of the consequences of their drinking and with plenty of life experience, it can lead to great times.0 -
Phil_321 wrote:Well, no wonder you have a negative attitude towards alcohol Ida, you've abused it way more than I ever have. I didn't start drinking till I was almost 17-18 and, I've never had a stage where I was "i was going out every night and drinking lots"(well other than race weeks in Galway:D).
It doesn't bother me in the slightest if someone drinks or not but it does bother me if someone starts nagging others about it, like the auld biddys who ring in to RTE complaing about the Late Late show or some other crap.
As for finding stupidy funny, there's lots of things I remember myself and my friends doing/saying while well-on/locked over the years that you could consider stupid or mad but they make me laugh even thinking about them. We still joke about them....."do you remember the time that such and such did......", etc......
Is there something wrong with that in your view?
It's all about finding how drink works best for you. I personally have no interest in drinking every night and wouldn't drink at all if I wasn't heading out (which would be every so often or sometimes I go out every weekend for a few weeks in a row).
You say alcohol bestowing confidence is an illusion. I agree, confidence is just a state of mind and I feel more confident when I've had a few. It's an accepted fact, (I'm going to have use the words "from experience", before you try and contradict me), that you do alot more chatting up and get on better when you're not sober. Well accpeted by the people I know anyway.
Lol. Reread you're posts, it seems you're the one who's been trying to justify not drinking. People just responded to your comments.
Finally, I think it has to be pointed out to you that you never really drank as an adult, your basing your opinions on your teen drinking years that spiralled out of control till you "were suffering hangovers almost every day" at 19. You realised you were developing a problem and stopped, which seems to have made you happier. Good for you.
Unfortunately (for the non-pioneers on this thread:D), as you've had a better life since you stopped drinking you're belief system has become hard-wired with the view that drinking is a terrible thing(which it probably was for you) with no practical benefits...... based on what? Your experiences as a teenager? :rolleyes:
People drinking too much when they're too young, experiencing peer pressure and haven't a clue about themselves or the world around them, is not going to be a positive experience for them.
For an adult, on the other hand, fully aware of the consequences of their drinking and with plenty of life experience, it can lead to great times.
Hi Phil 321...
just a few replies...
I haven't based my idea of alcohol-drinking on my experiences alone, which you seem to have, and my attitude towards drink is not a negative one. I think that everything on this earth has its use but it's a matter of finding what that use is. I have based my idea of alcohol on what I have seen, heard, read and explored. I am a health practitioner and so have studied the effects of alcohol physically & mentally. It doesn't bother me either if someone drinks or not, but it does bother me when they extol the virtues of it without recognising any other side. I personally don't think there is any virtue in drinking alcohol and less when drinking to excess (and i mean more than 2 or 3, depending on your size). My drinking never spiralled out of control, i knew exactly what I was doing all the time. I stopped drinking as I could see what happens when drink is a part of your life and your social life always involves it.
As for me considering things you say or do stupid, well I don't as i haven't hung around with you ever. you said that and i commented on stupidity, not on your fun as i have never experienced it. i have only gone by what you said stupidity was... In my view, there's nothing wrong wtih reminiscing and laughing, did i ever say there was?
yes, it's an accepted illusion that Dutch courage exists, and I again would like to quote the bit in Dumbo where it is realised that it is not the feather that's making him fly, but i still don't remember it.
I'm not justifying not drinking, I'm discussing the belief that drink is grand and just a bit of craic and nothing else. And then people responded to my comments, others comments and people wrote in all by themselves and i responded to some of them... isn't that the way it's supposed to go? what are you trying to say here?
When you say i never really drank as an adult and so am basing my idea on my experiences as a teenager you are wrong. After I stopped drinking, I worked in pubs, bars and clubs for 5 or so years and I never stopped going out and hanging around in pubs, bars, clubs, parties, etc with my mates who never stopped drinking. I am not basing my idea of drink on my own experiences and nothing else. Also my belief system is not hard-wired, it has been developing with me and will continue to do so... I am not a fixed thing, I am forever changing and growing. Drinking was not a terrible thing for me, i really enjoyed it at the time. but i realised that it wasn't worth it. Again, no I'm not basing my idea on my experiences as a teenager so roll your eyes all ye like phil.
Your last paragraph, are you talking about me? drinking when I haven't a clue about myself? if so, then get back off that buzz cause you've only had a few paragraphs with me, you know so little to be making a judgement like that. and if you're not talking about me, then what are you basing that judgement on, your own experiences as a teenager?
For an adult fully aware of the consequences of their drinking? Well isn't that what we've been trying to discuss here? and you keep saying it's grand, it's all good? lots of things can lead to great times... drink isn't necessarily one of them.0 -
I actually base a lot of my views on my experienes.I haven't based my idea of alcohol-drinking on my experiences alone, which you seem to have
I don't just go on what the left leaning media in this country tries to ram down my throat.yes, it's an accepted illusion that Dutch courage exists, and I again would like to quote the bit in Dumbo where it is realised that it is not the feather that's making him fly, but i still don't remember it.
It is a fact that alcohol alters behaviour. I think that's all that needs to be said there.Your last paragraph, are you talking about me? drinking when I haven't a clue about myself?
No, I'm talking about teenages in general.
Like anything, it's not all good. A car might be a great thing when used properly but you can still crash it........ or someone could crash into you.you keep saying it's grand, it's all good
You've been going on about why people shouldn't drink, saying you see no virtue in it. So I think it's reasonable to conclude that you think that society would be better if alcohol was banned. I, on the other hand, see the virtues and bad points to it, and think people should have the freedom to drink or not, as they do now.
I think you need to go look at Demoltion Man to see where you're prohibitive attitude would lead society.0 -
Canis Lupus wrote:Trebor either join the crowd or find yurself some mates who don't drink. Problem solved
i have no problems with my friends drinking, it's the attitude that they give me for not drinking that is annoying. my friends have become used to me not drinking and accept it but it gets old every time i meet someone new and have to go through all the same old questions on why i don't drink and how i can't have a good night with out it.
as long as they are drinking as part of a night out and not drinking to get drunk then i don't nagg them about it, what they want to do is their choice and i won't try to change them to my way of thinking all i ask for is the same consideration.
about the "alcahol changes behaviour" stuff. Do you not think it's strange that people need to injest a substance to work up the courage to talk to someone of the opposite sex (or the same depending on your preferance)? or that our culture has gotten to a stage that it's the only way for a guy to approach a girl? if i want to talk to someone then i'll go and do it, if i can do it without alcahol why can't everyone else? and if the other person isn't interested so what? at least you'll know for sure and won't be always second guessing yourself. 0 -
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Phil_321 wrote:I actually base a lot of my views on my experienes.
I don't just go on what the left leaning media in this country tries to ram down my throat.
It is a fact that alcohol alters behaviour. I think that's all that needs to be said there.
No, I'm talking about teenages in general.
Like anything, it's not all good. A car might be a great thing when used properly but you can still crash it........ or someone could crash into you.
You've been going on about why people shouldn't drink, saying you see no virtue in it. So I think it's reasonable to conclude that you think that society would be better if alcohol was banned. I, on the other hand, see the virtues and bad points to it, and think people should have the freedom to drink or not, as they do now.
I think you need to go look at Demoltion Man to see where you're prohibitive attitude would lead society.
dude, you're the only one who's said anything about prohibition. I wouldn't prohibit alcohol, i'm not sure what I would prohibit if I ran things... haven't given it much thought. I've gone on about the crap things about drink but it's not reasonable to conclude anything on my behalf, particularly that i would prohibit alcohol. i wouldn't tell anyone what to do - and that i have said more than once in this thread. I see the uses of alcohol - i have posted that already too. I use it in my work after all as a preservative.
i agree that anything is bad in the wrong hands. guns don't kill people - people kill people. alcohol is not bad, people are mislead about it and quite ignorant - and this is from my experience, research and observations.
so you don't go on what the left-leaning media rams down your throat - yeah, they're so violent aren't they? :-) why did you say that anyway? are you suggesting someone does? basing your views on your experience isn't a bad thing, but it is incomplete.
that's so funny that you think i have a prohibitive attitude just because I don't think alcohol is a good idea. 0
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