Dunsink Lane, lazy cops really at fault????

pork99 · 14-10-2004 11:16AM

Big Ears wrote:

probably , no-one wants another Abbeylara , especially not the gard's .

'Hence the armed response unit' tough enough thing to have them called out , they would not just have to be sure that yer man has guns but also that he could be willing to use them .

I wonder if there is any link between Abbeylara and the boom in armed crime over the last 5 years? "Sure the cops will be afraid to shoot us" is perhaps what's going through the average scumbag's mind when considering whether to do an armed robbery.

Personally I think the Garda merely did their duty at Abbeylara and protected the public from an armed madman. They should have been rewarded if anything. Remember the Hungerford massacre?

Another factor is fringe paramilitaries going into crime or creating their own "peace dividend" by "decommissioning" their weapons in Finglas for a few hundred yo-yos a piece.

Zulu · 14-10-2004 12:18PM

Blub2k4 wrote:

If you'd look at the start of the thread I do think that they should be sent in, seems they are afraid or something, that is my point, they should have sent in a hardcore force targetting the criminals, instead the lazy buggers dropped a big block of concrete. That was originally my point. Although if they're the same muppets that were in Abgbeylara then they are not the Mae West either but at least they are armed.

Blub2k4 - I would have loved to see you post had Armed Guardai stormed the halting site.

Blub2k4 · 14-10-2004 12:47PM

Zulu wrote:

Blub2k4 - I would have loved to see you post had Armed Guardai stormed the halting site.

To be honest if they had targetted the criminal you definitely would not have heard me sticking up for him. If they had done that the chances are also that we would never have ended up discussing it here except maybe to comment on one more scumbag in jail.
I definitely would not be here almost alone defending an ethnic minority from ignorance and bigotry.
In any case that is not what happened, that would probably have happened with a competent police force and it seems there is no danger of that in Ireland.

In any case they didn't and most of the white noise was like I said ignorance and bigotry.

Here's a little excercise for you:
Substitute Black or Jewish for traveller anywhere in the two threads that have happened about this incident and have a look how neanderthal you all look with your views.

meepmeep · 14-10-2004 12:57PM

Blub2k4 wrote:

Here's a little excercise for you:
Substitute Black or Jewish for traveller anywhere in the two threads that have happened about this incident and have a look how neanderthal you all look with your views.

I don't think theres even a comparison. And everyone is entitled to their views, "neanderthal" or not.

Blub2k4 · 14-10-2004 01:02PM

meepmeep wrote:

I don't think theres even a comparison. And everyone is entitled to their views, "neanderthal" or not.

No problem meepmeep, I assume you tried it then and got the point? Can you explain why you THINK there is no comparison?

Keyzer · 14-10-2004 01:09PM

If you live in Finglas or anywhere where there is a halting site you would know that the majority of the travelling community are a nuisance and destroy areas. And speaking generally, the travelling community doesn't give any thing positive back to society, at all, they are a lawless community who stick to themselves, and cause mayhem wherevever they go.

You cannot compare jews or blacks to travellers, over the years there has been a great influx of many nationalities to Ireland and people from those nationalities have integrated into our way of life. Thats not to say that there hasn't been a criminal element from some of those nationalities as well, but you get that with every group of people whether that be immigrants or the natives.

I am from Finglas, and I am sick of the way the travellers go on, they live in filthy areas, burn out their caravans on the side of the road, intimidate people, cause mayhem etc. And they all seem to have plenty of money.
Only the other day I seen a travller come out of the halting site in a pajero, which is a pricey car. No if he's not working, where is he getting the money from?

So before you critiscise people for their comments and attitudes, move somewhere near a halting site, in my case multiple halting sites, and witness for yourself how the travelling community behave, I think you will change your mind.

I hate to paint everyone with the same brush, and i'm sure there are respectable members of the travelling community, but they are few and far between from what I have witnessed in my lifetime....

Blub2k4 · 14-10-2004 01:15PM

I obviously hit a nerve with that little excercise.

Denial is bad mmmmmkay.

I've had enough of this anyway, too much effort expended on people with prejudices, thought maybe there was a chance of getting through to some, but obviously not.

And ye all wonder why the travellers have trouble integrating, I'd suggest looking at some of your attitudes to them.

Peace out.

Big Ears · 14-10-2004 01:21PM

Blub2k4 wrote:

And ye all wonder why the travellers have trouble integrating

No we don't , we know its because the majority are scumbags .

milltown · 14-10-2004 01:38PM

Blub2k4 wrote:

The camp in Dunsink is over 30 years old, people dont just move because they can. It is rather silly to contend that travellers always travel, I'm sure some of them from Dunsink have never left the area in their lives like a lot of "settled" people. I've lived in a few different countries in my life and conversely this doesn't make me a traveller, I dont speak Cant for example and despite itinerant patterns to where I have lived I am still not a traveller.

Dunsink lane has been a knacker Nirvana for a good many years now. Why would the bad eggs want to leave it?

I'm of the legally held opinion that the reason knackers travel is to keep ahead of the law and the taxman and continue their lawbreaking lifestyle. In recent years I have seen Bushy park, a football pitch in Tallaght and most recently the entrance to HP in Leixlip, turned into environmental disaster areas by these filthy leeches who then move on leaving the local council to clean it up at a cost of tens of thousands of our Euros.

Meanwhile, the knackers collect their dole every week, don't tax or insure their cars, vans or jeeps, and make more money by offering a "waste disposal" service to the law abiding (who have, on occasion, been fined after their rubbish is found dumped illegally by the roadside).

I have seen cases too, where the original, relatively clean knackers have been forced to move on from a "settlement" when the true scum moved in and ballsed up the whole place. After 30+ years I think it is fair to assume the ones who want a clean crime free site are long gone.

gandalf · 14-10-2004 02:16PM

Here is what I posted to the other traveller thread and I stand by it with regard to this one.

Why should people who are law abiding paying for their homes have to put up with anti-social behaviour. Seriously if this was any other group the Gardai would have baton charged them, arrested them, fined them.

This way of life is now defunct and far from providing halting sites we should be giving these people a choice. If you want to benefit from society and get all the backup that the normal citizen gets then you will have to abide by societies rules and integrate fully with it.

Ireland has changed greatly in the last 20 years, all of us have had to adapt to these changes, these people have to as well, their "way of life" is defunct and has been for years. Can anyone point out what benefits to society do they offer? Very little and they seem to act without thought for the people who are picking up the tab for their anti-social behaviour, well enough is enough.

Personally I feel the only thing the Gardai did wrong was not to go in heavy when the so called "protests" started on the motorway. To call people racist who are fed up with these anti socials is actually imho misguided in the extreme. They are Irish, either they take responsibility for what they get from Irish society or face the conseqeunces.

Zulu · 14-10-2004 02:43PM

Blub2k4 wrote:

Here's a little excercise for you:
Substitute Black or Jewish for traveller anywhere in the two threads that have happened about this incident and have a look how neanderthal you all look with your views.

Ok, I've done that. But you point fails to recgonise one blaring fact.
Any interaction I've had with Jewish people/black people/any other people, has been positive.
Any interaction I've had with the travelling community has been negative.

...but you refuse to acknowledge this.

Sleepy · 14-10-2004 02:46PM

To assume that any of the law-abiders are still there after 30 years is seriously, seriously misguided. What happened when Martin Cahill moved into his house? Residents of the estate sold up as quickly as possible (often at a loss on the house's value) and got the fúck out of there. I know if my next door neighbour was running an illegal business on the premises and was known to have guns in his posession, I'd be gone as soon as my month's notice was up.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this guy's neighbours' houses have wheels. Surely it's pretty simple for them to leave.

Now, correct me again if I'm wrong but there's no such thing as a clean, tidy halting site (council provided or illegal).

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the travelling community consider themselves a law unto their own right? I've never heard of one traveller suing another (only corporations or members of the business community) or calling the police when there's a genuine wrong done to them (I've seen a traveller call the cops only once: when asked to leave a store she had already been barred from for shoplifting). I have however seen them beat each other senseless, attack each other with wheel braces and smash each other's cars up. I've also heard of the chaos they've caused in the country's casualty wards (and don't try to tell me this was media hysteria, I read it in the court pages).

Now finally, seeing as you seem to be the expert on the travelling community Blub2k4, can you tell me what the average tax received from an adult member of the travelling community is?

I'll bet a hundred euro that the average tax collected is outweighed by social welfare payments by at least a thousand euro a year. If you won't contribute to society, you have no right to draw from it, and certainly have no right to damage it.

Zulu · 14-10-2004 02:47PM

Blub2k4 wrote:

And ye all wonder why the travellers have trouble integrating, I'd suggest looking at some of your attitudes to them.

Peace out.

That's a laughable cop out. Travellers don't attempt to integrate - if they did there wouldn't be a problem.

Creating industrial waste sites, coupled with lawlessness and intimidation doesn't constitute integration.

meepmeep · 14-10-2004 02:49PM

Sleepy wrote:

If you won't contribute to society, you have no right to draw from it, and certainly have no right to damage it.

Amen, brothers and sisters.

Deadwing · 14-10-2004 02:57PM

Blub2k4 wrote:

And ye all wonder why the travellers have trouble integrating, I'd suggest looking at some of your attitudes to them.

Peace out.

Yeah, the poor unfortunate knackers. They've just got bad press is all. All they want is a nice halting site to turn into a garbage dump while they make thier illegal petrol and threaten gardai, burn jcbs, tear up golf courses and attack innocent passers by when they dont get their way. After all, isnt that what all law abiding members of the communtiy want too?
:rolleyes:

Calibos · 14-10-2004 03:11PM

Blub2K4

Where you the one in the other thread that worked with travellers in an adult education centre/computer training centre??

Anyway, assuming you were, the fact that all the travellers you have met have been 'decent oul skins' might be down to the fact that only the decent travellers are the ones that want to better themselves and attend an adult education centre. ie that the decent majority of travellers that attend your courses are actually in a minority back in their own communities.

Sleepy · 14-10-2004 03:13PM

Calibos wrote:

Blub2K4

Where you the one in the other thread that worked with travellers in an adult education centre/computer training centre??

Anyway, assuming you were, the fact that all the travellers you have met have been 'decent oul skins' might be down to the fact that only the decent travellers are the ones that want to better themselves and attend an adult education centre. ie that the decent majority of travellers that attend your courses are actually in a minority back in their own communities.

Or doing so as a result of a plea bargain in a court room.

Blub2k4 · 14-10-2004 03:20PM

Calibos wrote:

Blub2K4

Where you the one in the other thread that worked with travellers in an adult education centre/computer training centre??

Anyway, assuming you were, the fact that all the travellers you have met have been 'decent oul skins' might be down to the fact that only the decent travellers are the ones that want to better themselves and attend an adult education centre. ie that the decent majority of travellers that attend your courses are actually in a minority back in their own communities.

That wasn't me, someone else wrote that, I have done street work with homeless here in Dublin. I know a lot of travellers through that.
The ones I met were normally lying about on the ground out of their heads on some substance or other.

I dont judge them on their weaknesses, people in glass houses and all.

Someone else works with them in a program teaching them computers.
My mother works with travellers in an adult education program.

The Muppet · 14-10-2004 03:20PM

Blub2k4 wrote:

Here's a little excercise for you:
Substitute Black or Jewish for traveller anywhere in the two threads that have happened about this incident and have a look how neanderthal you all look with your views.

Heres one for you Subtitute Criminal with the word Traveller in you posts and see how much of a bleeding heart you look and stop pushing the racist slant where there is blatently no racist intent by the authorities.

You said earlier that no other community in this country has ever had access blocked like this. I suggest you talk to someone who lived near the border in the 70's and 80's before making such false statements.

What was done in Finglas was done for the right reasons, it would have been preferrable if the Gardai could have achieved their goal without blocking the road but as we have seen they are dealing with a large group of criminals intent on continuing their criminal activities and that calls for extraordinary steps to curtail the problem. Theres nothing racist,bigoted or even new in that.

Blub2k4 · 14-10-2004 03:45PM

The Muppet wrote:

Heres one for you Subtitute Criminal with the word Traveller in you posts and see how much of a bleeding heart you look and stop pushing the racist slant where there is blatently no racist intent by the authorities.

You said earlier that no other community in this country has ever had access blocked like this. I suggest you talk to someone who lived near the border in the 70's and 80's before making such false statements.

What was done in Finglas was done for the right reasons, it would have been preferrable if the Gardai could have achieved their goal without blocking the road but as we have seen they are dealing with a large group of criminals intent on continuing their criminal activities and that calls for extraordinary steps to curtail the problem. Theres nothing racist,bigoted or even new in that.

My aren't you intelligent, that trick with the criminal substitute idea, never would have thought of that, but that assumes they are all criminals, that is bigotry, that could be why, I dunno.

You didn't read my posts cos the second paragraph is wrong,

Blub2k4 wrote:

It is not particularly racist, it is bigotted and discriminatory and there is no way that it would have been done to a settled community in this manner.

I suggest you read it slowly again, I'm sorry I dont have a crayon font, and then lecture me on false statements, irony is something that is lost on you I take it? Also that was 20 years ago, whatever you are on about, my statement stands.

You're nearly right on the third paragraph at least a bit of the first half, shame your prejudice doesn't actually allow you to bring that reasoning to it's logical conclusion.

Anyway I'm being drawn into an argument with a muppet, shame on me.

Keyzer · 14-10-2004 03:47PM

For Blub2K4 -
Right, so you do a bit of social work, that means you'll fight for the underdog in a discrimination battle which is admirable. But this argument here is not a racist argument. I never seen a halting site full of black people, going around beating the almighty ****e out of each other and living in absolute crap, causing chaos, contributing nothing back to society but taking everything they get their hands on etc. or jews, or asians or anyone else for that matter...

Do you know why travellers are travellers? cos they are smart, thats why, they know if they integrate theyre milking the state and tax payer and everyone else way of life will no longer be feasible.
Do you know that if you commit a crime down the country, and don't give the knackers a cut, then your dead.
They are like a mafia organisation. They stick to themselves, and integrate with no one.

The Gardai should have beaten the crap out of them at those protests, they caused chaos with the traffic and the golf course etc. They had no right to cause so much disruption like that, they should have protested outside council offices if they wanted to, but I didnt put the wall on the end of Dunsink lane so why should I suffer????

Wake up and smell the coffee......

Trojan · 14-10-2004 03:50PM

I don't think all travellers are criminals or any of the other labels used to define them. In my experience, however, I have seen things which lead me to believe that the majority are. Have you *ever* seen a halting site abandoned without tonnes (literally) of rubbish left strewn about?

A Muslim spokesman said recently "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims". I don't agree with him since obviously there are the likes of the IRA, ETA, etc. His point was that the overwhelming majority of terrorists causing trouble in the post-WTC attack world are Muslim, and that's something that Muslims as a whole need to deal with. I hope they do, because until then the innocents will suffer from being stereotyped.

Not all travellers are scumbags, but ... but I'd like to see some of their community step to the plate and take some responsibility for their disgusting criminal, anti-social and filthy behaviour, and talk about how they plan to stop it.

--

Hypothetical question: what would Irish society be like if we did not have these people? Would we have lost an important part of our heritage? Or would we just have a higher percentage of tax payers, a cleaner country and reduced crime rates?

Blub2k4 · 14-10-2004 04:03PM

Trojan wrote:

Hypothetical question: what would Irish society be like if we did not have these people? Would we have lost an important part of our heritage? Or would we just have a higher percentage of tax payers, a cleaner country and reduced crime rates?

Hitler tried it before he hunted the Roma gypsie cos they were seen as racially inferior.

This is not a new form of bigotry by any means the travelling peoples have always been demonised.

Ignorance breeds fear.

Sleepy · 14-10-2004 04:07PM

I noticed you didn't address any of my points Blub2k4 and just gave me negative rep instead. Very mature.

Blub2k4 · 14-10-2004 04:12PM

Sleepy wrote:

I noticed you didn't address any of my points Blub2k4.

How can you justify law abiding citizens throwing money at a group of people that have no repect for anyone (themselves included).

You have your ideas why bother you have prejudged, you're not worth the time.
I had intended not to post anymore in this thread.

Zulu · 14-10-2004 04:12PM

Sleepy wrote:

Or doing so as a result of a plea bargain in a court room.

ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing!

LOL, good man Sleepy, another great post!

Blub2k4 · 14-10-2004 04:15PM

Sleepy wrote:

Or doing so as a result of a plea bargain in a court room.

Damn I gave you negative rep for that, I meant it to be positive.

<edit> and such a mature comment too, added a lot to the discussion.

Sleepy · 14-10-2004 04:17PM

To assume that any of the law-abiders are still there after 30 years is seriously, seriously misguided. What happened when Martin Cahill moved into his house? Residents of the estate sold up as quickly as possible (often at a loss on the house's value) and got the fúck out of there. I know if my next door neighbour was running an illegal business on the premises and was known to have guns in his posession, I'd be gone as soon as my month's notice was up.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but this guy's neighbours' houses have wheels. Surely it's pretty simple for them to leave.

Now, correct me again if I'm wrong but there's no such thing as a clean, tidy halting site (council provided or illegal).

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the travelling community consider themselves a law unto their own right? I've never heard of one traveller suing another (only corporations or members of the business community) or calling the police when there's a genuine wrong done to them (I've seen a traveller call the cops only once: when asked to leave a store she had already been barred from for shoplifting). I have however seen them beat each other senseless, attack each other with wheel braces and smash each other's cars up. I've also heard of the chaos they've caused in the country's casualty wards (and don't try to tell me this was media hysteria, I read it in the court pages).

Now finally, seeing as you seem to be the expert on the travelling community Blub2k4, can you tell me what the average tax received from an adult member of the travelling community is?

I'll bet a hundred euro that the average tax collected is outweighed by social welfare payments by at least a thousand euro a year. If you won't contribute to society, you have no right to draw from it, and certainly have no right to damage it.

I asked you a direct question and gave you three opportunities to correct me if I was wrong in that post. If you're not open to another point of view, why post this thread at all?

Zulu · 14-10-2004 04:21PM

Sleepy wrote:

I noticed you didn't address any of my points Blub2k4 and just gave me negative rep instead. Very mature.

Yup, that his modus operandi. Rather than enter into a discussion he'll evidently loses, he resorts to negative rep. Be carefull Sleepy - he'll start with the personal insults next.

Blub2k4 wrote:

Hitler tried it before he hunted the Roma gypsie cos they were seen as racially inferior.

This is not a new form of bigotry by any means the travelling peoples have always been demonised.

Ignorance breeds fear.

Jeez, you're really pulling out all the stops now. Yes, we're ALL nazi's. Hitler targeted many people. We're talking about knackers in Ireland - sorry, my bad, travellers.

You still haven't addressed my points by the way.

Blub2k4 · 14-10-2004 04:23PM

Sleepy wrote:

I asked you a direct question and gave you three opportunities to correct me if I was wrong in that post. If you're not open to another point of view, why post this thread at all?

You have your ideas why bother you have prejudged, you're not worth the time.
I had intended not to post anymore in this thread

I could go through your post and analyse it and tell you where you are wrong, refer to the above.

Dunsink Lane, lazy cops really at fault????

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