Dunsink Lane, lazy cops really at fault????

Blub2k4

Ok here's one for all the bigots that were so quick to condemn the travellling community in finglas.

It is looking increasingly like the incident in Dunsink Lane had abolutely nothing to do with dumping and that appears to have been used as a smokescreen for something a lot more worrying.
Apparently the block was put on Dunsink Lane to block one of the travellers up there from refining marine and agtricultural diesel to white diesel which he is then selling on at a huge profit. He has apparently been busted already and handguns were seized in the bust.
It turns out Gardai and Customs men have been threatened by this criminal and they were too scared to do their jobs and decided that instead of surveillance and arrest they decided to disregard the normal procedures and got into cahoots with the council and pulled a fast one, simply blocking the trucks delivering the diesel instead of arresting those involved.
So really this was brought on the city by incompetent coppers and not "damn travellers" as some of you were happy to jump on this bandwagon the other day.

I say who are the scumbags now? This one particular traveller most definitely and also the people too willing to condemn a whole community for one mans actions.

Wait and see if it actually all comes out.

Dave

Not that I'm discrediting you or anything, just want to know what's your source on this?

meepmeep

Yeah, links please

mike65

Sounds like the Gardai were thinking laterally!

Mike.

jesus_thats_gre

So a violent criminal threatening the Gardai to an extent where they are fearful of their personal safety if they arrest him means that the Gardai in question are lazy?

Blub2k4

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

So a violent criminal threatening the Gardai to an extent where they are fearful of their personal safety if they arrest him means that the Gardai in question are lazy?

Not doing their job makes them lazy, terrible the way criminals see fit to threaten them but it is their job and part of it.

In reference to the situation with the diesel operation this is the only boards reference that I could find http://pie.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1977863#post1977863

Like I said it is not verified and if you do notice I have not made a statement I have covered it as hearsay so far, although McDowell was apparently on the tv the other night claiming that the man would be arrested. That should be verifiable, dont have the time right now to google it.

Blub2k4

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=66974

here is a discussion on indymedia with references.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/index.php3?issue_id=10355

Irish Indo again only referencing the diesel operation.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2091-1302493,00.html

Sunday Times

Make of it what you will.

Zulu

Blub2k4 wrote:

Ok here's one for all the bigots that were so quick to condemn the travellling community in finglas.

Apparently the block was put on Dunsink Lane to block one of the travellers up there from refining marine and agtricultural diesel to white diesel which he is then selling on at a huge profit. He has apparently been busted already and handguns were seized in the bust.

Well that really paints the knacke.... sorry, travellers in a good light. :rolleyes:

jesus_thats_gre

Blub2k4 wrote:

Not doing their job makes them lazy, terrible the way criminals see fit to threaten them but it is their job and part of it.

Their job is not to recieve threats from a ****ing knacker!

So the cops are lazy as oppossed to the knacker being a dangerous bastard who has absolutely no fear of the law. Why is not someone highers fault, such as judges or law makers?

Hagar

So was it this one criminal individual who vandalized the golf club?
I can sympathise with their plight but that was uncalled for and I don't even like golf

stevenmu

I read about the above in the Indo aswell. What I took from it was that it was a combination of the above issues and the previously mentioned ones which caused the blockage. To me it just justifies it even futher. On the issue of surveillance the Indo mentioned that there were cameras put up but they dissapeared. Any Gardaí who went down there were basically threatened and chased off.

Also, I didn't get a chance to mention in the last thread before it was locked that the Dunsink Rd is known locally as "execution alley".

Blub2k4

So collective punishment is ok in this case, seems to be the consensus.
400 people for one persons crime?
The golf club attack was wrong and was a fringe element but in fairness there was motor oil all over the place which was probably the same stuff left over from the refining process ( if you read the attached articles this is mentioned as well.)

The cops have a job to do, they deal with violent criminals that is part of their job.
So by Jesus_thats_gre's twisted logic a threat on a cop is enough for them to leave me alone is it? Ever heard of due process? Law is based on it.

You dont even see the fact that the one person should have been dealt with or group, which does not entail the whole lot of the Dunsink Lane residents.

What the **** are the gardai being paid for then if not to deal with criminals?

seamus

The Gardai's problem is that since the May Day fiasco, Garda Joe isn't willing to go in and bust heads on his own intiative because he can no longer be sure that his superior officer will stand behind him and say that he gave the order, like they used to.
The superior officers are afraid to lose their jobs, and won't give anything but tame orders.

So we have a standoff. The Gardai are told to do uncontroversial things by their superior officer, like blockade the road, and the Gardai on the street won't make a judgement call on the right thing to do when a gang of travellers descend on the blockade, spitting and throwing rocks, because no matter what happens they fear they will be accountable. They could lose their jobs or face prison time for doing what seemed to be the right thing at the time.

spongebob

Can I buy me cheap diesel in Fingilisss again without getting busted by the Guards on the way in or out of the <ahem> Garage ??

M

Jip

Blub2k4 wrote:

I say who are the scumbags now?

I'd still say the people who rioted on a nightly basis at the barrier stoning not only the Gardai but also innocent motorists, I still say the people who live in filth in that area and expect it to be cleaned up free of charge by the council, I still say the people who set fire to the lodge as Dunsink Observatory, I still say the people who destroyed the Golf Course at Elm Green on Monday night and finally, I still say the people who smashed windows at Dunsink Observatory the same night the golf course was attacked.
Next question please.
By the way, I think it's time to change that plaster on that bleeding heart of yours.

Zulu

Jip wrote:

I'd still say the people who rioted on a nightly basis at the barrier stoning not only the Gardai but also innocent motorists, I still say the people who live in filth in that area and expect it to be cleaned up free of charge by the council, I still say the people who set fire to the lodge as Dunsink Observatory, I still say the people who destroyed the Golf Course at Elm Green on Monday night and finally, I still say the people who smashed windows at Dunsink Observatory the same night the golf course was attacked.
Next question please.
By the way, I think it's time to change that plaster on that bleeding heart of yours.

ahhh now Jip - in fairness, that was all just one criminal.

[/end scarcasm]

Blub2k4

In fairness Zulu if wit were sh1t you'd be constipated.

Zulu

In fairness Bulb2k4 - you're trying to blame the guards for the actions of a group of anti-sociable, lawless, travellers.

...and trying to do so by insulting me - great argument by the way. :rolleyes:

<edit> I'd say you must be pissed you can't give me anymore bad karma </edit>

Big Nelly

Blub2k4 wrote:

In fairness Zulu if wit were sh1t you'd be constipated.

Have you ever been down the Dunsink lane??

Blub2k4

No I insulted you quite late into your bigoted tirades actually.

You're trying to blame all the travellers for the actions of a few.

Blub2k4

Big Nelly wrote:

Have you ever been down the Dunsink lane??

I pass it daily, I have had no reason to go down it, there is a recycling centre accross the road from me.

Not that it has anything to do with it, if you just want to go off on one again about how dirty the travellers are dont bother, I'm not interested.

Jip

Blub2k4 wrote:

You're trying to blame all the travellers for the actions of a few.

Aha, we've reached a breakthrough, you're now no longer blaming everyone but the travellers.

And grow up would you, just because you don't agree with peoples opinions there's no need to disapprove of everyones post here, there and everywhere and quit with the chidish comments, you know what I mean.

Big Nelly

Blub2k4 wrote:

I pass it daily, I have had no reason to go down it, there is a recycling centre accross the road from me.

Not that it has anything to do with it, if you just want to go off on one again about how dirty the travellers are dont bother, I'm not interested.

One question and I going off on one?? if ur not interested in anyone having a discussion about ur original point then why did you post? this is a place for discussion not just one person posting and then telling everyone that they are right and if they dont agree then insult them

Blub2k4

Big Nelly wrote:

One question and I going off on one?? if ur not interested in anyone having a discussion about ur original point then why did you post? this is a place for discussion not just one person posting and then telling everyone that they are right and if they dont agree then insult them

So your point is then?

Blub2k4

Jip wrote:

Aha, we've reached a breakthrough, you're now no longer blaming everyone but the travellers.

And grow up would you, just because you don't agree with peoples opinions there's no need to disapprove of everyones post here, there and everywhere and quit with the chidish comments, you know what I mean.

Hmmm so far no one has actually addressed the point, it again has become a case of people just venting their prejudices against travellers.
If you're referring to the comment against Zulu, you should read some more of the enlightened specimens posts, nasty piece of work.

Anyway you started the smartness with the bleeding heart comment, that I took exception to, so dont lecture me on childishness.

Zulu

Blub2k4 wrote:

No I insulted you quite late into your bigoted tirades actually.

You're trying to blame all the travellers for the actions of a few.

Not all - just most. I think the few you speak of represents the majority. You haven't been able to prove me wrong, or convince me that I'm wrong.

My judgment is based on every run in I've had with them. I've never had a positive experience with travellers. That's not my fault.

Zulu

Blub2k4 wrote:

Hmmm so far no one has actually addressed the point, it again has become a case of people just venting their prejudices against travellers.
If you're referring to the comment against Zulu, you should read some more of the enlightened specimens posts, nasty piece of work.

Anyway you started the smartness with the bleeding heart comment, that I took exception to, so dont lecture me on childishness.

Do - please read my other posts. That's directed at you Blub2k4, because evidently you haven't. If you had, you'd be aware that I tend to liberalism and, in general, acceptance.

Please provide back up to your snide remarks. It's childish otherwise, and doesn't really convince anybody of anything other than the fact that you are feeling threatened, and can't form a proper argument.

<edit> I like the way you squeeze in the personal insults though </edit>

Blub2k4

Zulu wrote:

I'm not racist - knackers aren't a race.

Well I'm sure if they'd travel on they might be closer to the next school.

10-10-2004 18:30 Zulu Sorry Blub - they ARE knackers.

The last one is from a negative feedback.
Yes enlightenment personified, I take it all back.
You do mean liberal as in Dick Cheney liberal right?

seamus

Blub2k4 wrote:

Hmmm so far no one has actually addressed the point, it again has become a case of people just venting their prejudices against travellers.

You see, the problem I have with "It's not all of us" is that travelling groups are close-knit. Some travellers may not be attacking cars and the people that are in them, but this stuff is still occuring on their doorstep, being perpetrated by their friends, neighbours and family. Their inaction makes them part of the problem. They ask to be left alone, for the Gardai to not interfere, but they fail to do anything about their own social problems. They have a duty, as Irish citizens, and as members of a community (whether it be the travelling community or the Irish community) to act to stop/prevent this crap occuring, or to takes names and numbers and tell the Gardai and let them deal with it. They are in a position to remove the antisocial element of their community, and yet they refuse to.

What else do they expect us to do? If it's a majority who aren't involved in crime and dumping, then that majority have a duty to outnumber and control the minority. If it's a minority who aren't involved, then they should break away and refuse to associate themselves with the destructive element in their society.

Think of it this way - you're living in a house. When people drive down your street, neighbours and friends run outside, smash the windscreens and assault the drivers. There is rubbish dumped all over the road, and all around your house. Burnt out vehicles everywhere. Scumbags roam the streets, drunk, fighting, causing hassle. You refuse to do anything about it, even though you are free to move house whenever you like it. Instead, you just stay where you are, happy to socialise with these people.

Then the Gardai block off one end of your road to stop people illegally dumping there. Would you complain? Do you think you'd have a right to complain?

Zulu

Blub2k4 wrote:

The last one is from a negative feedback.
Yes enlightenment personified, I take it all back.
You do mean liberal as in Dick Cheney liberal right?

Well let me retort...

"I'm not racist - knackers aren't a race."
Well knackers aren't a race. Travellers aren't a race. So I used the word knackers, boo-bloody-hoo. :rolleyes:

"Well I'm sure if they'd travel on they might be closer to the next school."
Ok, they are travellers. It's their culture to travell around, yet you were complaining that (in the instance mentioned) the closest school was 6? miles away.

"Zulu Sorry Blub - they ARE knackers."
This indeed was negative feedback. A little petty perhaps, but in resbonce to your : "They're called travellers!" negative karma.

As for your Dick Cheney comments: why don't you click on my name; select the "Find all posts by Zulu" link; read, and then come back to me. (ie: when you know a little about what your talking about)

invincibleirish

sorry to harp on about it,but heres my own recent experience with the wonderful travelling community in limerick : robbed by pikeys

Hagar

And today's programme was brought to you by the words:

knackerophobia - an irrational fear of travellers
necroknacrophelia - the act of rogering a dead knacker

Blub2k4

seamus wrote:

You see, the problem I have with "It's not all of us" is that travelling groups are close-knit. Some travellers may not be attacking cars and the people that are in them, but this stuff is still occuring on their doorstep, being perpetrated by their friends, neighbours and family. Their inaction makes them part of the problem. They ask to be left alone, for the Gardai to not interfere, but they fail to do anything about their own social problems. They have a duty, as Irish citizens, and as members of a community (whether it be the travelling community or the Irish community) to act to stop/prevent this crap occuring, or to takes names and numbers and tell the Gardai and let them deal with it. They are in a position to remove the antisocial element of their community, and yet they refuse to.

What else do they expect us to do? If it's a majority who aren't involved in crime and dumping, then that majority have a duty to outnumber and control the minority. If it's a minority who aren't involved, then they should break away and refuse to associate themselves with the destructive element in their society.

Think of it this way - you're living in a house. When people drive down your street, neighbours and friends run outside, smash the windscreens and assault the drivers. There is rubbish dumped all over the road, and all around your house. Burnt out vehicles everywhere. Scumbags roam the streets, drunk, fighting, causing hassle. You refuse to do anything about it, even though you are free to move house whenever you like it. Instead, you just stay where you are, happy to socialise with these people.

Then the Gardai block off one end of your road to stop people illegally dumping there. Would you complain? Do you think you'd have a right to complain?

Sorry about that Seamus (possibly others too) I forgot there were people in among the bigots saying something worthwhile.
Surely what you apply to the travellers you would also apply to other communities as well? Why if that is the case do we have crime?

If it were only travellers involved in the illegal activities that were originally cited as the reason i.e. the dumping etc then your point would be valid, everyone here seems to agree that half of Dublin dumps down that lane and no one disputes that some travellers do.

There is one Group in any case that is definitely involved in the diesel thing, so the people who should deal with this are the people employed by our tax monies to do this, i.e. the Gardai, you cant claim collective responsibility and therefore imply that collective punishment is ok, this may be in Utopia but not anywhere I know.

On a side note the scene you describe above sounds a bit like parts of Neilstown or other settled communities, are they all responsible and by inference all as guilty?

Zulu

Would it be fair to assume that the percentage the social group who commits acts of crime/anti social behaviour is higher amoung the traveling community, in comparision to the settled community as a whole?

(possiably due to a number of factors: lack of oppertunities etc..)

seamus

Blub2k4 wrote:

On a side note the scene you describe above sounds a bit like parts of Neilstown or other settled communities, are they all responsible and by inference all as guilty?

Not all as guilty, but as somone once said, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." Now that is a bit simplistic, but a community cannot do absolutely nothing and then complain when the State attempts to crack down on this anti-social behaviour. The irony is if the majority cared, they would welcome a crackdown.

The only difference is that in the settled community, people can't just pack up and go. It's not that simple. In many areas, a majority two or three families are involved in the behaviour, and terrorise the rest of the people into keeping schtum because frankly, they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. Unlike a traveller, they can't just throw all their belongings into the car and move their home somewhere else. They're trapped - if they complain, they'll be terrorised more.

meepmeep

Hagar wrote:

necroknacrophelia - the act of rogering a dead knacker

hehehehe *wipes tear from eye*

Oh Hagar, you're a gem

ShiverinEskimo

Blub2k4 wrote:

Surely what you apply to the travellers you would also apply to other communities as well? Why if that is the case do we have crime?

If you look at crime statistics for any town or city you sill see that it spikes in certain areas. These areas are areas not disimilar from travellers sites in the fact that those around them are either involved in the crime, do not care about the crime or too scared to stop the crime. These areas are called, rough areas, dodgy whatever. Its the same principal. Crime spikes in places where those willing to perform said crime are in close proximity.

My point is that it is common to look down on these areas and write them off as bad places, even though there may be a few in there that are not bad. Majority rules.

In a good area with low crime gets one family that start causing trouble those around the area will complain and do something about it. Those that choose not to do something about it and watch their neighbourhood deteriorate are as much to blame as those who causing the deterioration.

Slunk

Yeah the gardai are useless but I still think the barrier should be left there.Knackers are still scumbags even if the garda dont do thier job properly

OfflerCrocGod

Hagar wrote:

knackerophobia - an irrational fear of travellers

There is just one word that has to be changed in that definition for it to be correct. "Entirely Justified" sounds good.

tony 2 tone

Blub2k4 wrote:

so dont lecture me on childishness.

Sooo you have a monopoly on that too?

Canis Lupus

[semi rant]
blub have you noticed the hordes of posters flocking to say your right? What does that say to you? That you must be right and the majority of people posting in here are clearly insane to not notice the redeemable qualities of the travelling community?

My first experience of travellers was when I was young so details are fuzzy in terms of fights or crime or what have you but the place they left behind where I used to play was full of bags of rubbish, dirty nappies strewn everywhere and 2 kitchen appliances (cant remember what) but like washing machines (why do they always seem to leave a broken washing machine behind?).

Next is the same scenario (in terms of the site when they left behind)but on the day those lovable travellers left, my next door neighbours cattle trailer vanished... funny that coincidence but surely I wouldn't accuse a member of the travelling community of such theft because that would predjudiced of me to wildly jump to conclusions.

My final experience is when a band of travellers arrived in the local village.. These continual roamers were quiet, well behaved and left money to clean up after them shock of shocks that but also they happily parked in a field next to the only car park in the village (they must like the feel of grass under there feet) and then blatently parked 2 vans at the entrance of the car park blocking it. This was during the height of summer and the net result was coaches etc that would normally stop and park in that car park and let people off and shop and eat etc didn't happen they carried on to the next town (altho admittedly this also occurred because people for some inexplicable reason feel nervous around travellers and didn't want to stop in a village which looked like a big caravan and camping site, damn irrational prejudices).

Now I have had limited experiences with the travelling community admittedly but a quick hands up will find you plenty of ppl who have less rosy things to say about travellers than I have and you will also find oddly there aren't many people who will say "those people in the caravans down the road, aren't they great pillars of the local community". In fact can you find me one person on the boards willing to say that?

Deadwing

Meh. Call this an unfair generalisation if you will, but knackers are, well...knackers. Scumbags. Tinkers. Pikeys. Theyre 99% scum.
Youre entitled to you opinion if you think they've just got a bad rep, thats fair enough, i respect that and im not gonna try to change your opinion, however im of the opinion theyre all robbing, filthy scum, and by god, its an opinion im entitled to have, and noones gonna change it.

The Muppet

Blub2k4 you appear to be of the opinion that this revelations of diesel laundering being the reason for the wall as something new. Have you been following the story for the last week? That aspect has been very well reported in lots of different coverage of this story and is nothing new.

This road is not the first one to be closed to throught traffic in the country.
The others recieve little or no media coverage because the law abiding citizens of the state will either accept the change or protest peacefully.

There are numerous reports of lawlessness from diesel laundering , fly tipping, arms finds, and a couple of murders on this road. Personally I think if I lived there I would be happy to see the authorities taking whatever action necessary to tackle this crime .

Hashbrown

Guards at Fault for Dunsink lane Jesus Blub2k4 thats the best I heard in a long time . Why dont you move in with them for a few weeks and then come back and tell us all about it. Just had about 15 Caravans about a mile from my house all with new english reg Cars and Vans, gone now and you would want to see the state they left the place in.. Scum end of story......

Pyr0

I can remember a story a friend of mine told in class one day.He was being chased by a group of travellers holding steel bars and lumps of wood and the likes......he was chased for about a mile when his shoes fell off and the travellers stole them and stopped chasing him.It was very funny in class and at the time to I'd say .

Now I wasn't sure if they were chasing him to take his shoes or what....:)

Victor

The was two ways to block the road, between the halting site and Finglas (what was actually done) or between the halting site and Blanchardstown. It was the wrong choice as it punished everybody by forcing everyone into a long round trip to shops and schools.

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

If you look at crime statistics for any town or city you sill see that it spikes in certain areas. These areas are areas not disimilar from travellers sites in the fact that those around them are either involved in the crime, do not care about the crime or too scared to stop the crime. These areas are called, rough areas, dodgy whatever. Its the same principal. Crime spikes in places where those willing to perform said crime are in close proximity.

Would this be because noice areas like Ballsbridge and Dalkey feature little social depravation? And also reject mixed housing, thereby ghettoising other areas?

Blub2k4

seamus wrote:

The only difference is that in the settled community, people can't just pack up and go. It's not that simple. In many areas, a majority two or three families are involved in the behaviour, and terrorise the rest of the people into keeping schtum because frankly, they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. Unlike a traveller, they can't just throw all their belongings into the car and move their home somewhere else. They're trapped - if they complain, they'll be terrorised more.

The camp in Dunsink is over 30 years old, people dont just move because they can. It is rather silly to contend that travellers always travel, I'm sure some of them from Dunsink have never left the area in their lives like a lot of "settled" people. I've lived in a few different countries in my life and conversely this doesn't make me a traveller, I dont speak Cant for example and despite itinerant patterns to where I have lived I am still not a traveller.

The Muppet

Victor wrote:

The was two ways to block the road, between the halting site and Finglas (what was actually done) or between the halting site and Blanchardstown. It was the wrong choice as it punished everybody by forcing everyone into a long round trip to shops and schools.

Thats a good point Victor. Is it true that there is a permannent Garda Checkpoint at the Blanch end of the road now. If so I would imagine that was the reason as I would't fancy manning one the Finglas end.

That road was very busy I would imagine plenty of the local settled community used it. Are they protesting about its closure as well ?

seamus

Blub2k4 wrote:

The camp in Dunsink is over 30 years old, people dont just move because they can. It is rather silly to contend that travellers always travel, I'm sure some of them from Dunsink have never left the area in their lives like a lot of "settled" people. I've lived in a few different countries in my life and conversely this doesn't make me a traveller, I dont speak Cant for example and despite itinerant patterns to where I have lived I am still not a traveller.

Then we have a problem, do we not? We have people who claim ethnic minority status, but who no longer practice the very thing that makes them a minority. If they're not nomads, then they're just another bunch of Irish tax-dodgers living in ramshackle housing IMO.

My point still stands. There's a destructive element that exists in their society, like any other. They socialise with them, let them carry out their activities, then protest their innocence when the state attempts to intervene to cut down on this activity. How can we win?

If they don't want to go back out on the road, but they don't want to live with the crap, and are unable to do anything about it, they're free to apply for social housing.

Blub2k4

seamus wrote:

Then we have a problem, do we not? We have people who claim ethnic minority status, but who no longer practice the very thing that makes them a minority. If they're not nomads, then they're just another bunch of Irish tax-dodgers living in ramshackle housing IMO.

My point still stands. There's a destructive element that exists in their society, like any other. They socialise with them, let them carry out their activities, then protest their innocence when the state attempts to intervene to cut down on this activity. How can we win?

If they don't want to go back out on the road, but they don't want to live with the crap, and are unable to do anything about it, they're free to apply for social housing.

UN definition of a minority:
Minority is a "group numerically inferior to the rest of the population of the State, in a nondominant position, whose members--being nationals of the State--possess ethnic, religious or linguistic characterisitics differing from those of the rest of the population and show, if only implicitly, a sense of solidarity, directed towards preserving their culture, traditions, religion or language."

Sounds like the travellers to me, or can you speak Cant?

seamus

Sounds like a linguistic minority to me, I'll concede that. Same could be said for Irish speakers.

How many travellers can speak Cant? Are they travellers if the cannot, but still live with travellers?

Semantics are irrelevant anyway.