The Draft

Paladin · 15-11-2000 08:56PM

Originally posted by C B:
You also claim that neutrality is not respected however not even the Nazi's invaded the Swiss and I can't think of any army/nation which is likely to be more unscrupolous than the Nazis.

ROFL
Dude, I dont know how much you know about ww2, (It was of a particular interest to me) but the reason the nazis didnt invade Switzerland had nothing to do with their neutrality, or at least very little to do with the fact.

Switzerland is very mountainous. Its entire population almost is armed. They have extensive defences in the mountains meanting they could put up a geurilla defence for years even against modern armies.
And most importantly, the nazis didnt want to invade switzerland, because they had all their fuking gold in the swiss banks! Everything they nicked from jews almost, went to switzerland and subsequently there have been loadsa attempted law suits from jewish survivors to get their money back from switzerland.

So thats why they didnt invade Switzerland. Not rreally bucause they were neutral, but because it suited them to avoid a tought little country like aht, and they made more money from them as a banking nation.

Hobbes · 15-11-2000 09:25PM

they didn't invade Ireland either as far as I remember. Didn't they apologise for accidently bombing Dublin as well?

Paladin · 15-11-2000 09:57PM

*ahem*. They didnt invade England or the USA either, nor a lot of other countries.
[hypothetical question with obvious answer]Why do you think that was? [/hypothetical question with obvious answer]

BTW. Apparently Churchill had drawn up plans to carpet Ireland in what I think was mustard gas If Germany tried to use Ireland as an invading base, although Im not sure exactly what kind of chemical agent it was. This was just plans, a contingency measure as it were. Whether it would have been used if the Germans had managed to scrounge up an invading force I dont know, but I doubt.

[This message has been edited by Paladin (edited 15-11-2000).]

Coyote · 15-11-2000 11:05PM

One of the resions ireland did not join was that we used the time of the war to brake away from the UK.
and the irish gov made sure to ask the germans and the brits to help if the other side tryed to attack us, so if the germans attacked we called in the brits, and if the brits attacked they would have called in the germans to help us. (playing both sides off each other) both side had plans to use ireland as a base, great for the germans to block off the UK from the US and the rest of the world, and the brits would have used us as a steaping stone to the US and a save place to bulid stuff.

Coyote

Blitzkrieger · 16-11-2000 09:48AM

By accounts from "survivors" I get the impression that most people were willing to fight the germans alongside the british. A lot of people did everything they could to help.

C B · 16-11-2000 11:13AM

Pal,

Most other countries invaded by the nazi's were hardly hospitable. Its a bit odd to try and conquer Russia but think that Switzerland would be to hard. Also given the close cultural links a full invasion would not actually have been necessary they could simply have supported and internal revolution and created a puppet regime (see Norway, Spain, or Croatia for examples)
The banking system would have remained unhindered by the creation of a Nazi puppet state.

They did attempt to invade the U.K. but never made an attempt to invade Ireland. The U.S. did not enter the war until 1942 (even later in Europe) by which time a German invasion of the U.S. would have been impossible.

Blitz,

Of course their were people willing to fight the Germans a great many even joined the British army, many irish also fought on both sides in the Spanish civil war but none of that has got anything to do with the draft.

Gerry · 16-11-2000 12:30PM

The thing is, that few people feel that a country is a thing worth fighting for these days, and that accounts for most of the opposition to the draft. I'm not saying whether thats a good thing or a bad thing, just stating my opinion. Apathy is the next big thing, I think what we need is for the irish army to start bombing Ireland to wake people up.

ButcherOfNog · 16-11-2000 02:24PM

this should win silly post of the year

1. ireland will never be invaded, we have no natural resources worth invading for.
2. ireland will never invade someone else, because we'd rather go down the pub.

ok? now wise up.

Hobbes · 16-11-2000 02:27PM

Originally posted by ButcherOfNog:
1. ireland will never be invaded, we have no natural resources worth invading for.

So why did England orginally invade?

Gerry · 16-11-2000 05:03PM

If only I could somehow master the worm-can opening skills evident on this board, and apply them to opening cans of beans, sure I'd be flying.

In other news, germany had a lot of stupid plans, the topic here is supposed to be the draft, in a sort of future looking sense, not in a lets drag this through the mill one more time kind of malarkey.

I'd like to think I would be ok with the draft, but then again I am wondering indeed if Ireland is worth fighting for. I think I will go and fight for communism instead, or possibly my grant.

Excelsior · 16-11-2000 06:17PM

phil all those things would be futile, you ass.
futile and irrelevant.
cans of beans! i think you're are mocking the more vocal members of these boards.
how dare you dirty the good name of this hallowed site. how dare you sir.

C B · 16-11-2000 06:25PM

well as with most things it would be utterly futile to examine the future applicability of the draft without looking to see what history can teach us.

p.s. yet again you post when you have nothing to say excelsior you just can't seem to help yourself can you.

/me looks to Castor and tells him he'll be busy closing topics 'cause I haven't finished berating excelsior

(only kidding)

come back and i'll taunt your some more.

[This message has been edited by C B (edited 16-11-2000).]

ButcherOfNog · 16-11-2000 08:24PM

Originally posted by Hobbes:
So why did England orginally invade?

England invaded everyone, they didn't really have a good reason, and before anyone pipes up, expanding the empire wasn't a good reason

Jak · 17-11-2000 01:01AM

Germans were planning to Invade Ireland - See the "Green Plan" for details.

We were to be a farming resource for the Reich.

In any case, thousands of Irish did fight in the war anyhows, unhindered by the fact their country was neutral, they went and signed up in the UK (often under fake documents .. not that they needed them).

IMO, it was short sighted in the extreme for us not to openly take part in the war. Irish died anyhows, and we collaborated with the allies often enough, but as we were technically neutral, we received none of the post-war reparations which helped many of the other European countries develop so quickly.

C B · 17-11-2000 01:01AM

Well I for one think its a good thing that people don't want to fight for their country. the death of nationalism is a good thing. But it is wrong to call that apathy. people may want to fight for things they actually believe in instead.

Blitzkrieger · 17-11-2000 01:13AM

Originally posted by C B:
none of that has got anything to do with the draft.

Of course not - it was meant to be a interesting (but actually boring) aside.

There's a bit of a politician about you C B

You nit-pick to avoid the difficult questions and take any oppertunity to but the boot in.

C B · 17-11-2000 01:40AM

I don't avoid difficult questions, the rest is true

Paladin · 18-11-2000 03:04AM

Originally posted by C B:

Its a bit odd to try and conquer Russia but think that Switzerland would be to hard

Dont you get it? They didnt want to invade Switzerland, because it benefitted them more not to. They knew they had a big f'ing continent to conquer. Why waste armed forces on a country that suited them to remain neutral and bank for them? (and it did matter a great deal that Switzerland was neutral banking for them, since many nazis werent stupid and didnt believe religiously in the third reich - a neutral country wouldnt have its banks bombed either).

. Also given the close cultural links a full invasion would not actually have been necessary they could simply have supported and internal revolution and created a puppet regime (see Norway, Spain, or Croatia for examples)

Close cultural links? Dude, they might eat the same food, and many speak the same language, but the Swiss were not Nazis.
And an internal revolution? Against what? A government that banked for the Nazis, making them one of the wealthiest per head of population countries against the world?
People dont revolt against governments that they support, and the people overwhelmingly supported their government (they kept them out of a war too dont forget)

Oh, and their invasion of yugoslavia (Croatia included) was an unmitigated disaster, since a guerilla war devasted the german troops, morally and provisionally, with no real benefit to the Nazis.

They did attempt to invade the U.K. but never made an attempt to invade Ireland.

OK this is getting ridiculuos.

Seriously man, where did u come up with that?
Operation sealion. Planned to be carried out in the summer of 1940. Put back to spring 1941. Hitler then changes plans and invades Russia. The operation was abandoned.
NO ATTEMPT TO INVADE THE UK WAS EVER CARRIED OUT BY THE NAZIS
If you dont believe me, Im confident that encyclopedia Britannica will back up the fact there was no invasion attempt (except in that film Bedknobs and Broomsticks

)

Fidelis · 18-11-2000 05:01AM

A draft in the current state of world affairs would be daft.
About 30,000 soldiers if needs be ( including FCA ) and sure what good would another 20,000 conscripts be against a wave of bombs ? And if we *ever* needed real help, then we'd get it from the yanks and sure if it was the yanks attacking us, then we'd be fúcked

Vincent · 19-11-2000 05:14PM

Pal was the Battle of Britain not an attempt to invade Britain? Germany knew they had to control the airspace around Britain before they could launch an actual invasion, the RAF kicked the luftwaffes asses, so thus no real invasion was attempted.

Paladin · 19-11-2000 05:30PM

Originally posted by Vincent:
so thus no real invasion was attempted.

The answere was in ure reply

Invasion:
The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer. (from dictionary.com)

Flying aircraft overhead doesnt quite fit the definition.

You are quite right Vincent, in that the Germans knew they had to control the airspace. Unfortunately for them, Hitler didnt, and decided to go bombing britain instead of gaining fighter supremecy (as opposed to superiority).
This meant no attempt to invade Britain was made
Happy?

Vincent · 19-11-2000 05:38PM

I hear ya pal, it wasn't quite an "invasion" cos it doesn't exactly come under the defination, but it was the first step in an attempted invasion, u acknowledged that so i'll shut up now

. What do u mean by hitler didnt' know they had to control the airspace? and they only decided to bomb them after they had failed there "invasion" attempt (maybe they were ****ed off

Paladin · 19-11-2000 05:54PM

Well the German generals knew they would need air supremecy. They were targeting airfields, aircraft factories etc.
Hitler on the otherhand, became a little obsessed with terrorizing britain instead of defeating it.
He switched priority bombimg from these military targets to civilian targets, and thus starting the 'blitz'. If he hadnt done this, the british airforce would have soon been finished off, making an invasion attempt a real possibility.

But, in calling the air assault on britain an invasion (or attempted one), is like calling picking up the rocket launcher in quake, a frag. It isnt. Its just making things easier for when u actually do make an attempt.

FreaK_BrutheR · 20-11-2000 04:15AM

My woman is in the FCA. She is trained to kill people eefectively. An awful lot of people up in Doneal are in it or have been for a while. Personally I don't want to learn how to kill people. My head's ****ed up enough as it is.

_________________________

http://run.to/pile

Shinji · 20-11-2000 11:34AM

The TA over here has the bonus that they train you especially to kill French people. This seems like an eminently good idea to me. EVERYONE should have to learn how to kill the French.

Excelsior · 20-11-2000 02:35PM

you're right!
if we dont kill them, they will eat our babies' livers.
lets get an army and go and kill the french!

Blitzkrieger · 20-11-2000 03:50PM

boards.ie united in our hate of the french!

C B · 20-11-2000 05:10PM

well theres the proof of my theory that the net does not increase cultural exchange but reinforces peoples stupidity.

Pal,

I think you've got a little bit wrapped up in semantics which is a shame cause otherwise you've made an ass out of me with your superipior knowledge. But my original point remains valid and neutrality is a valid option which can work.

Excelsior · 20-11-2000 07:02PM

yeah, shinji, i hate the french, don't you?
i sincerly desire to kill them all.
i think cb might be one of those frenchie sympathisers.
is lynching an option?

Paladin · 20-11-2000 08:03PM

Originally posted by C B:

Pal,

I think you've got a little bit wrapped up in semantics which is a shame cause otherwise you've made an ass out of me with your superipior knowledge.

True, but there are only so few things that Id have superior knowledge of I have to jump at the opportunity

The Draft

Comments