The Draft

Doc

What would people think if we had the draft in Ireland?
Would it be such a bad thing?

Doc

MiCr0

do u mean compulsary military/state service?

Doc

yes

Yossarian

why?

Doc

My friend is German and he would be drafted if he was not studying in England and i just want to know what people think about the draft... if thats ok with you!

Doc.

Figment

Very good question. Why?
Not why are you asking but why would we have it?

Figment


[This message has been edited by LittleFigment (edited 09-11-2000).]

Doc

I know we don’t need it but if we did have it what would your feelings on it be?

Bard

If military service was compulsory in this country, and there was an attempt to draft me (against my will) into the army, I'd seriously consider leaving the country as soon as possible.

It's not very likely in Ireland, mind you- considering it's generally "neutral" status.

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Blitzkrieger

I think there should be. Historically how many countries have respected neutrality? I hope ww3 never happens but if it does I plan to do my part and I hope Ireland does too.

Hobbes

?

Ireland, Switzerland are two I can think of who have historically.

I'm sorry was there a point to that sentance?

Canaboid

Thats a bit of a sweeping statement there Blitz given that you don't even know who you'd be fighting.

Shinji

There's a school of thought which says that a period in the military will instill discipline and so on. It's not a bad idea; in fact, perhaps some form of limited draft into the military for persistent troublemakers in schools and so on would be a good idea?

However, a general draft would be a nightmare. I'd be doing my service right now - sod that. I've been working for almost 2 years now, and in fulltime education before that; I have a career and a life I'm rather happy with. There are thousands of others in the same position as I am, and the draft would mess that up bigtime.

I'd leave the country to avoid it.

Yossarian

Why would we need compulsary military service?
we dont. In times of peace it is pretty much pointless, most countries no longer have national service. There are some exceptions to this such as switzerland and germany. Even in germany tho National service does not mean military service, as you have the choice of taking a non-military job.

Do we need it in this country? No.
Does anyone want it in this country? No.


Stephen.

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger:
I think there should be. Historically how many countries have respected neutrality? I hope ww3 never happens but if it does I plan to do my part and I hope Ireland does too.

Blitz if ww3 happens you and the rest of the world will be a smouldering pile of ashes before you get anywhere near 'doing your part'.

C B

Welll the original post posed the question of military/state service. The question of state service has been ignored.

I think drafting for state service might be a good thing.

Excelsior

crazy talk from most of you.

Canaboid

Which bits specifically ? How am I supposed to argue with you if you're vague
BTW you're wrong.

P.s. See for sale board for Pcmcia modem.

Manach

Loath as I am to paraphrase Heinlein " a country that relies on conscription to defend itself does not deserve to survive". There is opportunity for those who are interested in the Military to go through FCA / Civil defence though to be honest they are not overly-funded by the government and it shows.

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fair is the prize and the hope is great

Paladin

Personally, Being forced to give a few years of your life to a country just because you had the misfortune to be born there isnt really fair, especially if you have to pay taxes to pay yourself too

Blitzkrieger

Originally posted by Hobbes:
?

Ireland, Switzerland are two I can think of who have historically.

I'm sorry was there a point to that sentance?

I meant as aggressors Germany just rolled through Holland (and others I can't be bothered to think of) in ww2


Are you all honestly saying that if a war did start none of you would be willing to fight for the people and things you love, let alone the things you believe in?

Sweeden has the draft too, fyi. Poor auld Jesper Blomquist's career was put on hold for two years cos of it

Bard

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger:

Are you all honestly saying that if a war did start none of you would be willing to fight for the people and things you love, let alone the things you believe in?

Right now... YES, because there's no specific example you can give. I wouldn't take part in a war simply because my country is taking part in it. It totally depends on the situation surrounding the reason for the war whether I'd take part at all. You can't just generalise, it depends on the specific situation itself. I'd have to say though that I'm pretty sure it's highly unlikely there'd be any part for me to play in any war, and highly unlikely that I'd agree fundamentally with the reasoning behind the starting or waging of most wars.

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Excelsior

alot of good arguments have been placed in favour of fighting for your country. it is true they say, that there is a justice that can only be found on the other side of war. ww2 is an example.
but i have no intention of dying because my country gets in a war. if i ever fight it will be because the war is my battle, not just my nation's.
it is not the right of a country to conscript in that situation.
i am much happier and much more productive here where i am now.

Doc

Well I’m against the draft, as I don’t believe in forcing any one to fight and possibly die if it is there choice not to do so but having said that if Ireland was under attack from some hostile nation I would not hesitate to join and fight for my country.
One other point though. What would people think of drafting people on the dole for a year into military or state service for a period of time?

C B

well the point has been made that it is wrong to force somebody to fight for something the don't believe in and it is a valid point.

But I do think that it would be mutually beneficial for thoise on the dole to engage themselves in some state/voluntary service for the entire period spent on the dole not just limited to 1/2 years.

Blitzkrieger

Originally posted by Bard:
Right now... YES, because there's no specific example you can give.

I'm assuming that Ireland wouldn't go to war without a very[\i] good reason.

Draft people on the dole? They're trying to downsize the army already. Force their asses into a course to learn an employable skill more like. I think we already have more jobs than population or if not we will soon.

C B

OMG

More jobs than population how the fu(k did you work that one out?

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Heres a little reality check from www.cso.ie

According to the Quarterly Household Budget Survey there were 1,670,700 people in employment as of May 2000.

The total number of those available for work but not currently employed was 74,900 with a further 1,217,000 not in the labour force.

Giving a total estimated population (excluding those under the age of 15) of 2,962,800.

Now lets review.
Jobs = 1,670,700
Population = 2,962,800

Even allowing for a massive amount of actual vacancies you still need to go back to school.

[This message has been edited by C B (edited 15-11-2000).]

Excelsior

even better than the work comment was his assumption that ireland would only go to war for a godd reason.
yeah, because ireland is better than every other country by dint of the fact that you live here blitzie?

you exceed yourself, and from an excelsior that is some ciompliment.

Blitzkrieger

ffs - you know I meant population in the work force/ are available for work and I did say "or soon will be"

You don't agree that Ireland wouldn't go to war at the drop of a hat?

C B

even still your wildly inaccurate on both counts.

As the labour market tightens the price of labour will rise (its happening as we speak) leading to a stabilisation of vacancies.

Ireland supported NATO's intervention in Kosovo and we let US planes land here in the Gulf War neither of which I fully support.
we refused to fight in WW2 something which I believe was entirely wrong. Just because Berti Ahern/ De Valera believe Ireland should/shouldn't involve themselves in a War does not mean I agree.

In relation to defense of our nation then I would have to question who the invaders were (there is such a thing as liberty through invasion, i.e the French in 1798, the Allies in 1945 and even the Bruce invasion of Ulster and Lenster in the 1300's).

You also claim that neutrality is not respected however not even the Nazi's invaded the Swiss and I can't think of any army/nation which is likely to be more unscrupolous than the Nazis.

TwoShedsJackson

On the other hand the Nazi's did invade Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway, Finland (helping the Russians in 1939-1940), Yugoslavia, and Greece/Crete which were all neutral at the time they were invaded.

Not to forget Poland, to start the war, and attacking Russia with whom they had signed a Pact at the time.

C B

I wasn't aware that all of those countries were neutral.

are you sure? Holland and Belgium were both recently collapsed imperial powers at the time.

I am probably wrong but even still neutrality is quite well respected generally speaking.