Raise the drinking age to 21

seamus · 17-02-2004 01:56PM

Originally posted by Kiith
**** sake inaccessibleisl, just cause some people, as we all know, can't be mature enough to drink sensibly, doesn't mean that everyone under the age of 21 is a drunken scumbag. generalizations like that really piss me off.

This highlights another problem in Irish society. We have a tendency to exlude and/or persecute one section of society because of the actions of the minority.
The exact same attitude can be seen with Insurance premiums, Travellers, and immigrants.
I'll happily bow to the fact that *some* under 21's are too immature to handle drink, in fact more than in older groups, but you can say the same for a lot of things, sex, marriage, driving, employment.
Perhaps we should raise the minimum age for staying in school to 21. Ban all under-21s from driving, having sex, marrying, and getting a full-time job. After all, if it protects us from the minority of them, then it must be good.

As I said, it's attitude. Of the minority, most of them will bow to peer pressure. So if their mates say it's unacceptable, they won't do it. They key is getting their mates to change their attitude. Of course there will be some who get plastered and cause hassle every weekend, but that group exists across all ages.

GuanYin · 17-02-2004 01:56PM

Originally posted by Imposter
What exactly do you mean by poor infrastructure? Why is it different to any other country (from a 16-20 year olds perspective). And surely the prices in pubs are quite prohibitive to a 16 - 20 year old?

Its cost and access.

Things that are taken for granted in other countries, just aren't available here. sports facilities, swimming pools, cinemas, bowling alleys....whatever. Poor public transport, especially in the evenings also contributes.

They either cost too much or aren't accessible to the majority. A trip to the cinema on a saturday night, which lasts about 2 hours, costs about 15 Euros including drinks and popcorn.

Until people have something better to do the problem isn't going to be dealt with.

rs · 17-02-2004 02:12PM

Raising the limit to 21 won't solve much, it will just delay what happens now. I spent my teenage years in Canada

I'll draw a parallel.

Over there, you can drive at 16 and most people grow out of their stupid driving but 18 or 19.

Over here, people don't get to drive until their 20's, but they drive just a stupidly for the first few years. In fact, I'd say more stupidly because they've had to wait longer.

Kids will always start drinking before they legally should. That's just a fact. Doesn't matter what the legal age is.

The difference here is that it's accepted that people get twisted in public often. It's not tolerated in places like Canada and the US. If you are twisted and causing trouble then you get dealt with. I'm not saying that we should follow everything that north america does, but they seem to have a better handle on the drink problem than we do.

The point is that punishing all young people won't solve the problem. They'll drink just as much, just not in pubs. And probably, they'll drink more once you let them in to pubs, just because they can.

Once again, punish those responisble for causing trouble.

Saying that young people are more likely to cause trouble so keep them out of pubs is like saying coloured people are more likely to commit crime, so why don't we throw them in jail before they have the chance.

Anyone want to go out in the street and shout that?

Lafortezza · 17-02-2004 02:22PM

Originally posted by Saviour_Angel
I work in a bar and I absoultly hate young ones comming in and getting drunk. When there drunk they tend to get out of hand and cause a lot of trouble...

Did you ever refuse them because they were too drunk? I doubt it.

I've never seen anyone refused drink at the bar of a pub or club for the simple reason that they were too drunk.
There's always people who will be asked to leave as they stumble around the dancefloor or puke in the toilets but if they can stand at the bar and hand over money then they'll never be too drunk.

Imposter · 17-02-2004 02:25PM

Originally posted by syke
Its cost and access.

Things that are taken for granted in other countries, just aren't available here. sports facilities, swimming pools, cinemas, bowling alleys....whatever. Poor public transport, especially in the evenings also contributes.

They either cost too much or aren't accessible to the majority. A trip to the cinema on a saturday night, which lasts about 2 hours, costs about 15 Euros including drinks and popcorn.

Until people have something better to do the problem isn't going to be dealt with.

I don't buy that. I would be more of the opinion that young people here look at their elders and what do they see? They see them in a pub. It's then a perception that that's all there is to do. Ireland does have bowling alleys, sports facilities, cinemas (especially cinemas) it's just that it's cooler to be drinking than watching a film for example. I'm not so sure that the point about the public transport holds a much weight as you seem to think either. After all buses run in Dublin until after 11 and i'd assume some sort of service exists in Cork, Galway etc. Smaller towns which don't have public transport are by definition small and this situation occurs in other countries as well.

Lemming · 17-02-2004 02:26PM

I'd like to pick up on something that rs just mentioned. For the record I am very much AGAINST raising the drinking age as I believe it is only adding to the problem.

Some of you have pointed out the percentage of 16-20 year olds absolutely hammered and in need of some sort of care after a night out. Now why is that?

Because they are too immature to handle drink? Or not wise to the ways of drink and what goes and what doesn't in regards its consumption? I could say the former most certainly applies to people who are WELL over 21 years of age.

I think most young people are initially very stupid (in keeping with rs's comments on learning to drive) when they start taking drink at first but soon wise up. Highering this age limit will simply delay the inevitable, and you end up with people with lots of money (working) getting quite possibly into an even worse state.

zAbbo · 17-02-2004 02:27PM

Lower it to 16 tbh, i started drinking at 14 or so, nagon of vodka etc. had it out of my system before i hit college. Doesnt take a genius to work out that if you are puking your ring every time you drink that maybe you have a problem. A phase people go through. I pity the drinking culture we have in this country.

MrPinK · 17-02-2004 02:32PM

Originally posted by syke
The fact of the matter is, the countries with stricter drinking laws don't have the same disorder on the streets or amount alcohol related injuries as we do.

True, but you are jumping to conclusions as to why that is so. There are also many countries such as the Netherlands and Belgium which have age limits of 16 but still have lower amounts of drunken disorder and alcohol related injuries as us.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 17-02-2004 02:35PM

the problem isn't law or anything, it's just the irish and the culture we have.

Winters · 17-02-2004 02:39PM

Originally posted by MrPinK
There are also many countries such as the Netherlands and Belgium which have age limits of 16

The way it operates in the Netherlands (and Belguim I believe) is Beer is available to people of 16+ but spirits etc. are only available to those of 18+. Possibly a system like that may work but as mentioned above, everyone is immiture when starting to drink and it is not until they 'wise-up' and realise their limit do they become a more mature drinker. Its a stage everyone passes through.

Saviour_Angel · 17-02-2004 02:40PM

Originally posted by super_furry
I think it's a dreadful idea. By the age of 18 people can vote, smoke, join the army, drive and are expected to contribute to the upkeep of the country through their taxes, yet you propose to curb their right to go to a pub. It's a question of civil liberty, and one that I thankfully don't think would ever succeed.

it's not a civil liberty, it's a hinderence on our society that we cannot control..
Drink is simply a drug ! ! !...... A a drug thats tolerated.... But why when it's a major cause of problems in society.... Harsher laws should be brought in to combat these problems...

I don't think that it's fair to labelize all youth however as I am 21 and don't drink much (once a week and no more than 5 pints). It's unfair to call all youth immature even thought a large majority of them are ! ! !

cournioni · 17-02-2004 02:49PM

Originally posted by inaccessibleisl
Only something a teenager could say. Your not ready for drink yet, no matter how many pints you and your mates can 'skull back'. Your body is not ready for it, your still growing hair in scary places, popping pimples and playing computer games.

What a stupid narrowminded thing to say. :rolleyes:

Stark · 17-02-2004 02:50PM

The only argument I would have against underage drinking is that a young liver would be less able to handle drink. Other than that, society should stop trying to shift the blame. "It's not us, it's those whippersnappers". I've been drinking since I was 15 and I turned out fine in my drinking habits. I'm a fundamentally non-violent person and that's something that society should attempt to foster as opposed to "blame it on the drink and the young people".

A good phrase I heard - "you never grow up, you just grow old". It's not about age, it's about responsibility. Many 18 year olds can be very responsible in their drinking habits, many 40 year olds can be complete louts.

GuanYin · 17-02-2004 03:00PM

Originally posted by Imposter
I don't buy that. I would be more of the opinion that young people here look at their elders and what do they see? They see them in a pub. It's then a perception that that's all there is to do. Ireland does have bowling alleys, sports facilities, cinemas (especially cinemas) it's just that it's cooler to be drinking than watching a film for example. I'm not so sure that the point about the public transport holds a much weight as you seem to think either. After all buses run in Dublin until after 11 and i'd assume some sort of service exists in Cork, Galway etc. Smaller towns which don't have public transport are by definition small and this situation occurs in other countries as well.

Really? But where does it all start? I mean until ther eis an option for something else to do besides drink, what and where else will an influence come from. Its not just kids either, I'd gladly be doing those things if they were more accessible to me.

I think you are looking from a skewed point of view on this.

I've lived and worked in alot of countries but I'll bias my arguement and take GErmany and Ireland as examples of best and worst case scenario.

In Germany, most (not all) satellite towns of poulation circe 10K will have a football stadium, a swimming pool (often 50m), recreational facilities (bowling etc) and cinemas. They have good transport services that operate regularly.

Take 3-4 large satellite towns round Dublin. Swords, Malahide, Skerries, Balbriggan. All approaching 10K population. How many cinemas between them? How many swimming pools, bolwing alleys, sports facilities (Swords is close to a few but the fees are beyond your average teenagers means). Take the nearest Cinemas to Malahide, Skerries and Balbriggan.... Santry and Drogheda.... then look at the tiem tables to those places by bus or train.

What else is there to do? Well, strangely there are alot of pubs and liquor stores....

Now, these are places within 30km of Dublin.... try out in the middle of Longford.....

Zulu · 17-02-2004 03:09PM

Crazy, crazy idea.
You're old enough to decide on the future of the country (ie: vote).
You're old enough to be tried as an adult (ie: criminal offences).
You're old enough to take responsibility to drive a hazardous vehicles (car/lorry/bus). You're old enough to have a child and raise a family (sex and marriage).

...but you're not old enough to have a pint!?!

:rolleyes:
Not very much taught put into this one I see...

Perhaps the problem in Ireland is the culture, or perhaps the closing hours throwing all drunken people onto the streets competing for chips/taxis/buses at the same time causes the problems. Perhaps, perhaps....

...hang on - What with all the underage drinking problems in Europe with a drinking age of 16, coupled with the fact that there are no drink related problems with older people in Ireland, ...it must be related to age, WOW, why hasn't no-one taught of this before!!! :rolleyes:

embraer170 · 17-02-2004 03:23PM

I must say that Syke makes some valid points.

Anyone watch that Prime Time feature on Ireland’s drink culture about two years back? Probably the best hour of television I’ve seen; just too true.

Interesting that even in this topic people deny there is a problem.

Imposter · 17-02-2004 03:31PM

Originally posted by syke
Really? But where does it all start? I mean until ther eis an option for something else to do besides drink, what and where else will an influence come from. Its not just kids either, I'd gladly be doing those things if they were more accessible to me.

That's my point. I think there is other things to do besides drink it's just that people don't see them or don't want to see them.

In Germany, most (not all) satellite towns of poulation circe 10K will have a football stadium, a swimming pool (often 50m), recreational facilities (bowling etc) and cinemas. They have good transport services that operate regularly.

Most towns in Ireland have soccer facilities, gaa facilities etc. If you're talking about supporting such a team as an activity the option is there, it's just people don't do it. If you're talking about participating then it'll usually be during the day (unless at top level) in which case it's not entirely related to drinking in the evening.

Take 3-4 large satellite towns round Dublin. Swords, Malahide, Skerries, Balbriggan. All approaching 10K population. How many cinemas between them? How many swimming pools, bolwing alleys, sports facilities (Swords is close to a few but the fees are beyond your average teenagers means). Take the nearest Cinemas to Malahide, Skerries and Balbriggan.... Santry and Drogheda.... then look at the tiem tables to those places by bus or train.

All these places are connected to the Dublin bus network. Going to an earlier cinema screening is perhaps an answer. If you want to watch a film at 9pm then pop down to your video shop or are there none of them either? If people wanted to go to the cinema that wouldn't be a problem. Perhaps cinema timetables aren't ideal, perhaps bus timetables aren't ideal but it still is possible to go to the cinema if the want is there. Swimming pools, gyms etc are generally not so friendly to a teenagers means but that problem exists abroad as well.

I live in a city of 270,000 here in austria. There are 2 bowling alleys. Not easily accesible either. Cinemas are a similar situation as they're based in Multiplexes out of town. There are a few cinemas in the centre of town where accessability is better but 2 out of the 3 are arty cinemas which wouldn't have the same appeal as mainstream cinemas for teenagers.

What else is there to do? Well, strangely there are alot of pubs and liquor stores....

Surprisingly these exist outside of Ireland too (perhaps not quite the same number of pubs). Add to that the fact that drink can be bought at the cinema, the bowling alley, your local football stadium in fact anywhere that feels like selling it. So other countries that have more outlets for drink, far cheaper alcohol and similar facilities other than pubs, yet these countries have far less of a problem with drink. So how exactly is it a facilities problem again?

Now, these are places within 30km of Dublin.... try out in the middle of Longford.....

How many villages in Germany have such facilities? Then a village in the middle of Longford is really no different.

pauldeehan · 17-02-2004 03:43PM

(Throwing in 2 cents worth)

A lot of my friends were underage drinkers and nowadays only drink a little (or not at all in some cases). I waited until the legal age and I've had a lot of blank spots in my memory from nights out (currently trying to drink less btw).

I don't know exactly what my point is. :dunno:

Mossy Monk · 17-02-2004 04:05PM

lower the drinking age for pints to 16 and keep the spirits at 18. it is some of the underagers at the street corners that cause some of the hassle. get them off the streets for a start because chances are they are drinking anyway. a lot of people start off between the ages of 12 and 14

inaccessibleisl · 17-02-2004 04:13PM

If they ever lowered the drinking age to 16 I'd seriously burn every pub in my town to the ground. That would sicken me to no end. Ffs, then you'd have 15yr olds posing as 16yr olds in pubs and 13/14yr old drinkers on the streets. Unbelievable.
You idiots who say lower the drinking age must be 17 or something.
I'm actually quite baffled that people are that stupid that they would want to lower the drinking age.

Giblet · 17-02-2004 04:13PM

Yes lets have all the under 21's out on the street as well as the under 18's thats a great solution, maybe streets will be nice and safe like they are around my area with all the little 17 yr olds having fun and complimenting people as they pass by. It sounds like you've just turned 21 and now have a holier than thou attitude.

I drink far more irresponsibly now than I ever did, because I have more money than I did when I was 18.

I see people starting fights regardless of what age they are.

Skud · 17-02-2004 04:46PM

The problem of teenagers between 16 - 18 is gangs these days. The reason why they can't go to a pub or club like older friends. That's fair enough. But this leads to violence (and they mightened have been drinking) through bordem. In england there are clubs for 16 year olds. You get stamped and it's checked at the bar. Yes people still drink there, as here. Maybe these clubs need to be sanctioned for ireland? something to keep that age group off the streets. Now you elimanate the 18 - 21 year olds from the drinking group and you have a bigger problem. If drink is slowly adopted and accepted into society it will become less of a taboo. People will find it less fashionable and it will slowly become a smaller deal than it is now.

If you want to put the age to 21 you need the funding for somewhere for the 16 - 21 year-old age groups to go. So that would cost more money(which the government seem unlikly to fork out on) in order to cater for these indivduals.

Originally posted by inaccessibleisl
If they ever lowered the drinking age to 16 I'd seriously burn every pub in my town to the ground. That would sicken me to no end. Ffs, then you'd have 15yr olds posing as 16yr olds in pubs and 13/14yr old drinkers on the streets. Unbelievable.
You idiots who say lower the drinking age must be 17 or something.
I'm actually quite baffled that people are that stupid that they would want to lower the drinking age.

I'm not 17 by any means and i say do it. What does it matter if there are young people in a pub or not. If you keep to yourself they normally do. Yes there are people over drinking, but you either avoid that place or go to an over 21s or over 23s. I don't see much harm in individuals over the legal age drinking. You can't just suddenly turn around, place a 21 limit on people and go to the 18 - 21 year olds, ''Sorry there now you can't drink till you're 21."

Zulu · 17-02-2004 04:55PM

Originally posted by inaccessibleisl
If they ever lowered the drinking age to 16 I'd seriously burn every pub in my town to the ground. That would sicken me to no end. Ffs, then you'd have 15yr olds posing as 16yr olds in pubs and 13/14yr old drinkers on the streets. Unbelievable.
You idiots who say lower the drinking age must be 17 or something.
I'm actually quite baffled that people are that stupid that they would want to lower the drinking age.

Yes well, I know 12 year olds with both an attitude and reason more mature than this moronic comment.
I only wish I was still a teenager.

GuanYin · 17-02-2004 04:56PM

Originally posted by Imposter
That's my point. I think there is other things to do besides drink it's just that people don't see them or don't want to see them.

Maybe thats true, but the fact of the matter is that if you want an alternative on a friday or saturday night, there aren't any readily available.

Originally posted by Imposter
Most towns in Ireland have soccer facilities, gaa facilities etc. If you're talking about supporting such a team as an activity the option is there, it's just people don't do it. .

The current set up has amateur clubs in any of the towns I've mentioned, with Malahide Utd, probably being the most prestigious and the only club to have its own dedicated ground. If I lived in any of those towns mentioned and wanted to see a league of ireland game, I have drogheda and tolka park as my closest options. a good 45minute drive in either direction. At least 90 minutes on a bus.

Originally posted by Imposter
If you're talking about participating then it'll usually be during the day (unless at top level) in which case it's not entirely related to drinking in the evening.

Well if you could go to a match that was played at 7pm to support a team then hey... then why have it during the day. I watched league of ireland games regularly when I lived near a club, when I didn't, I just couldn't get to them.

Originally posted by Imposter
All these places are connected to the Dublin bus network. .

Ok, look at the area I mentioned..... what bus network? The malahide, skerries route is the most laughable attempt at a bus service I've seen. Swords is decent, but the traffic around the area and the fact it servce the airport makes it a farce and balbriggan at least has bus eireann.... however, when it comes to the nighttime these bus services are seriously curtailed. For instance, the last bus to Skerries and Balbriggan from either Drogheda or Santry (the two closests cinemas) pass those stops before the average late showing ends.

Originally posted by Imposter
Going to an earlier cinema screening is perhaps an answer. If you want to watch a film at 9pm then pop down to your video shop or are there none of them either? .

Hold on! Aren't we trying to give people alternatives to drinking at night..... why should we make them go to earlier shows? They will still need something to do at night....

Originally posted by Imposter
If people wanted to go to the cinema that wouldn't be a problem. Perhaps cinema timetables aren't ideal, perhaps bus timetables aren't ideal but it still is possible to go to the cinema if the want is there. Swimming pools, gyms etc are generally not so friendly to a teenagers means but that problem exists abroad as well..

People probably do wantto go to the cinema, but the fact is, for alot of people its just more feasible to go to the pub. Of *course* you can possibly go tothe cinema, but the whole point is giving someone a viable choice. Until that exists people will chose the path of least resistance.... they'll go to the cinema during the day because its the onlytime the transport allows and then they'll go to the pub as usual.

Originally posted by Imposter
I live in a city of 270,000 here in austria. There are 2 bowling alleys. Not easily accesible either. Cinemas are a similar situation as they're based in Multiplexes out of town. There are a few cinemas in the centre of town where accessability is better but 2 out of the 3 are arty cinemas which wouldn't have the same appeal as mainstream cinemas for teenagers...

Well we are talking about teenagers from 18 up here, so lets not be too condescending (thats not a jibe at you). If the structure is anything like the smaller towns in germany then the bus/train routes will be regular, accessible and will service the areas during their hours of business, not all of a sudden fade out past 7pm and leave people who have to venture 20km home stranded after 11.15pm

Originally posted by Imposter
Surprisingly these exist outside of Ireland too (perhaps not quite the same number of pubs). Add to that the fact that drink can be bought at the cinema, the bowling alley, your local football stadium in fact anywhere that feels like selling it. So other countries that have more outlets for drink, far cheaper alcohol and similar facilities other than pubs, yet these countries have far less of a problem with drink. So how exactly is it a facilities problem again?

This is back to being a nanny state. It just so happens that the drink problem here...and it is a problem, has gotten to the stage where we will sit just about anywhere and drink ourselves stupid. Look at the way people behave after drinking in Austria or Germany. Nowhere near the chaos here every saturday night. Now cinema, bowling allet etc etc owners don't have to worry about that happening in Germany..... in Ireland its a chance that I wouldn't want to take.

Originally posted by Imposter
How many villages in Germany have such facilities? Then a village in the middle of Longford is really no different.

Actually, quite a few. The average town that woud be about the size of malahide, the same or evern a further distance from a major city would have a guarenteed bus and train service running regularly. They would have a track and field/soccer and/or swimming pool. They would have a multiplex. Now I've only been to 10 or so and only stayed in 4 of them longer than 2 months but I didn't pick them so they were random enough selection.

Towns in Dublin don't have facilities to match them, towns in rural Ireland definitely don't. Take the west region around clifden, letterfrack and oughterard. Large young population. Nothing but pubs til you reach Galway City.

Now, I don't believe that U21 should be punished in Ireland, or shouldn't be allowed to drink. But I think there is a major problem here and it has to be addressed somehow. I certainly don't believe it should be done willynilly. But IF a stratigic plan was drawn up to address alot of the things I've mentioned, and if raising the age limit until the problem was solved was part of that plan, I'd support it. If it could all be done without raising the limit, great.

User45701 · 17-02-2004 05:04PM

Originally posted by inaccessibleisl
[B
"I belive in lowering the age to 16."
Stop, please, your killing me. [/B]

What is so wrong about that statement?
Think about it.

It is a fact that education does not and currently IS NOT working as a deturent to drinking in fields and parks.
People drink in parks for 3 reasons

1.They are under 18
2.They dont have the money for pub
3.Most of there friends are under 18

If the age was lowerd to 16 those that have the funds would go to the pub - this would reduce the numbers of drinking in parks. - This would be a good thing

Mossy Monk · 17-02-2004 05:11PM

Originally posted by inaccessibleisl
That would sicken me to no end. Ffs, then you'd have 15yr olds posing as 16yr olds in pubs and 13/14yr old drinkers on the streets. Unbelievable.
You idiots who say lower the drinking age must be 17 or something.
I'm actually quite baffled that people are that stupid that they would want to lower the drinking age.

13/14 year olds do drink on the streets
some pubs do have 15 year olds in them
and yes i shed almost 7 years with my post. you are a genius

GuanYin · 17-02-2004 05:13PM

Originally posted by User45701

If the age was lowerd to 16 those that have the funds would go to the pub - this would reduce the numbers of drinking in parks. - This would be a good thing

If and when we learned to drink sensibly, I'd almost agree with this. Not likely anytime soon. Increasing accessability would do two things.

1. Put a further strain on the already strained gardai trying to maintain law and order after pubs close at night.

2. Create a drinking culture in the parks wher eth 16-18 year olds who can't afford to drink in pubs can now get hammered on drink that is easy to obtain, meaning that a sustained garda presence would be needed there too.

pigeonbutler · 17-02-2004 05:20PM

Personally I think this is a moot point as a fairly sizeable chunk of the Irish electorate (6.67%) is over 18 and under 21. I'm sure you're thinking that young people don't vote but do you really think that would remain he case if their right to drink a pint was in jeopardy!!!

It's not just under 21's that would be outraged by such a move either. My father is 49, a local councillor and member of Fianna Fail. He's by no means a regular pub goer. He is firmly of the opinion that those 16 and up should be allowed drink beer and wine, with a strictly enforced 20/21 limit on sale of spirits. He also thinks that pub opening hours should be completely deregulated, ie. they may choose to open as early or late as possible as long as they keep an orderly house and the Guards should have the power to clear and shut for the night any pub which is causing a major disturbance. The whole drink issue is one of the few things myself and him agree on and i'm sure he's not the only person over 21 that would have similar opinions. However the conservative voices in RTE and The Irish Times would savage any government who proposed such a move!!

So as far as I see it we are in stalemate as far as the drink laws are concerned: They're is too much opposition to either relaxation or significant tightening. I can't see any major changes in them happening inside the next 10 years.

GreeBo · 17-02-2004 05:34PM

I think lowering it to 16 is absurd. :dunno:

In my head, the problem is that people are starting to do things at a younger and younger age.

e.g a 15 year old sees his 18 yo brother drinking, so he starts drinking at 17, then his younger brother starts at 16 and it gets worse and worse as generations pass.

Im not sure what a solution is, but I think that if the legal age was moved to 21 it would at least stop some people from getting drunk at 16.

Its not going to magically make everything better, but I think its a step.

I dont think that keeping the pubs/clubs open unilt 4am will fix anything either.
Sure the people who are already responsible will be able to enjoy themselves more, but the sorts person who currently feels the need to drink as quickly as they can before 12 (aswell as being an immature idiot, who only drinks to get drunk) is not going to suddenly stop. They will simply drink more.

There should be punishments for pubs/clubs and off licences that serve the underaged. Again, this might stop some people, also we should be taking d&d people off the streets and fining them/parents.

We all know that some people are able to control themselves at 17 and some cant at 40, but we need to "protect" the ones at 17 that cant and tough for the ones who are (or think they are) mature enough.

Drink at home if you are that mature!

The sorta person who goes out to get ****-faced every weekend is not going to slow down because they can drink until 4-6am, in fact nothing bar being arrested will stop these eejits, no matter what age they are.

Turned into a bit of an essay, but these things happen.

Imposter · 17-02-2004 05:36PM

Syke,

We'll have to dissagree here as I think there is alternatives but people generally just don't want to find them. Younger people from rural areas often go drinking in the towns as i'm sure people from Dublin suburbs occasionally go drinking in the centre. Now if no possible transport exists how does this work? As i've been saying where there's a will there's a way.

I'd agree that going to watch local sports teams isn't as attractive as it is in Europe. This imo is because most town/village/suburb has more than one sport that competes for that interest and dilutes the final product. But if anything more of these events occur as a result although the facilities aren't as good (floodlights etc.).

Cinema times is a bit of a catch 22 but i'm sure the cinemas schedule the films to get the biggest crowd. If that means alienating a group of teenagers who'd rather be in a pub complaining of lack of other things to do then so be it!

Of course public transport is better in most of Europe. I think you'll find though that most services are more or less finished well before midnight in most places.

I agree with you that there's a huge drink problem in Ireland but I think a lot of it is caused by the nannying. Allowing people to drink younger would move the problem to a place where it could be watched/controlled a lot better than in parks, fields or wherever. Extending opening hours would also solve a lot of problems in the long term. Even put a reasonable curfew (from pubs) on those under 18 if deemed neccessary. Ok initially people would go a bit mad but I would hope they would eventually come to their senses.

Raise the drinking age to 21

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