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Naval Service General Discussion - Fleet, Manpower, Policy

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    To be honest, if it came down to 4 fully operational upgraded 60's compared to the 70's I'd take it, even as limited as the upgrades are going to be (if they happen of course @mupper2 ), but certainly questions should be asked if the Kiwi's managed to pull a fast one and sell us a couple of lemons that they wanted rid of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,135 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No.

    If true, this isn't on the Kiwis. We sent educated and experienced engineering officers as part of the project team to Wellington to assess, renew and ultimately transport these ships to Ireland.

    If they are indeed lemons, its 100% on us.

    Nobody from the RNZN held a gun to any Irish official's head and forced them to sign for them.

    But overall, I fail to see what the big deal is. Those MAN power plants and their successors are still routinely available from Everllence (formerly MAN Energy Solns) in Germany and Denmark. Just buy two new main plant units and carry on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    We wouldn't be the first ones that the trick got pulled on (thinking some of the Royal Navies sales in the past…), but either way suppose the issue is the ROI for another extended drydocking and engine refit for what are meant to be pure Fisheries Patrol ships when supposedly we are meant to be thinking about something more than fisheries. Or just the political optics if they have to go in for a cut and engine replacement after being bought.

    Either way, it just has to stay a non story till 2027.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    So after the UK actually did raid and seize a Russian tanker in the English Channel, I wonder how busy the West Coast route is going to get? Meanwhile of course the Russians have decided maybe to replay the Dodger bank incident and opened fire with warning shots against a civilian yacht off of the Isle of Wight… Just something to consider in terms of the NS:

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/reports-of-russian-warship-firing-at-british-vessel-near-uk/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Alison Comyn is bringing a proposal to the Senate toward for Drogheda Port to be the East Coast Naval Base long term.

    It has the backing of the Part Time Part time minister of defence Thomas Byrne and apperently locally has the support of the Part Time Minister Time Helen Mc.

    The main trust for them wanting it is non other than jobs.lol



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    First, how many jobs do they think is going to happen from it? Second please tell me they at least didn't call it a FOB this time, and lastly, why the hell would the navy pick it other than rather obvious vote buying BS?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,350 ✭✭✭thomil


    I've seen some insane stuff from backbench TDs in this country, but a naval base in Drogheda? Where are they going to put it? At least DL has a pier and a single point of entry that can be easily sealed off.

    I'd call for a mandatory sobriety test for TDs, but I have a feeling that the TD in question was actually sober and serious when he came up with that. Now I need a drink…🥃

    Life is far too serious to be taken seriously!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Theres actually not many problems with drogheda with plenty of room and visits of the navy in the past. The one major problem is the port is Tidal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,135 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    As I've said many times, its already been decided for Dún Laoghaire. Jennifer Carroll MacNeill locked it down in negotiations for the programme for government.

    Alison Comyn is a freshman senator. She has to be seen to be doing these things ahead of her next run for the Dáil, but she won't have any success.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I have to say i was very impressed with the Naval Service regen plan last week and espcially with the purchase of two Arrowheads.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    That along with joining the Tempest program for the future Irish fighter procurement…

    Look the Part Time Minster was probably more focused on her main job in Foreign Affairs, she (and nobody else from the cabinet) didn't even bother turning up to the new officers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    i blame the air corps. When DEPR googled NH90 and seen the price they had heart failure and are still in shock at how much everything will cost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    oh I don’t know, they’ve had sticker shock for the Navy since the 00s hence why the MRV was kicked to death and why the suggestion of actual combat capable purchases has been met with a strong “F right off”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Grassy Knoll


    before we get worked up on the location for an East coast FOB, are the reported issues with NZ ships which would presumably be operating from there, resolved?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If there was truth to it you would think it would have hit the headlines by now espcially for the non government partys to beat the government about waste etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Meh, honestly I'd focus the resources on the 60's to build up their crews given they will be the only thing that actually gets some useful capabilities. Whether or not the 70's have busted engines is relatively minor compared to the reality that the role they will play is minor anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    A bit more coverage on the French Frigate off Dublin, did we spec the 60's with non NATO standard radio systems?

    Military sources said French naval crews have been provided with tactical radios by their Irish counterparts to facilitate communication. This was required because the Irish Naval Service does not possess the Nato-standard communications systems used by the French.

    Also, again the date we take over the Presidency was known, it has been since we held the last one, why exactly didn't we push for the anti-drone system to be installed before next year?

    However, anti-drone electronic warfare systems ordered for Irish naval vessels will not be in operation until January next year, after Ireland hands over the presidency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,135 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It could be as simple a reason as that they weren't to be had.

    The Ukraine war has changed the game entirely and the whole World is looking for CUAS tech. We were probably at the back of the line from the outset.

    Anyhoo, welcome to the Naval Service reserve, pennant number D657, the Aquitaine-Class multi-role Frigate 'Lorraine', named for the region of eastern France, not your first girlfriend's Ma.

    And what a beauty she is. Once again, not your future mother-in-law.

    1000018558.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Not making sure our comms would work with the French? As for waiting lists, if you are willing to pay positions can be moved, and I'm fairly sure securing some of the largest diplomatic events in Europe would have made some of our EU partners willing to consider our needs, if we had bothered (see the late in the day CUAS for Baldonnel for how half arsed we've been), but instead like most things its "next year", when the major demands have passed.

    At the very least I hope the French stick us for every cent having a FREMM on station costs, and make the SG and the Part Time Minister explain why that's the money well spent.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,135 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Its not money that will ever be disclosed, "for security reasons", but up to €1 million per week operating costs would not be unreasonable for such a ship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭vswr


    Don't need NATO standard comms sets, if you're not in NATO - Irish DOD logic

    Most likely DOD didn't want to pay for comms kit with STANAG compatibility, and are using "military grade" COTS crypto.

    edit: or a TETRA vs TETRAPOL use issue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I am shocked that none of the usual whingers are giving out that the Marine nationale are currently protecting Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Why? The usual gobshites normally trot out that its actually the UK's responsibility to cover our arses, if they have actually read about the French in the bay they would probably come out with some bullsh!t about how this proves neutrality works and that everyone else will cover us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,423 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    It's all rather embarrassing isn't it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭vswr


    At least someone competent is in charge… even if they're not Irish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,135 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Theres nothing to whinge about, because they aren't. They're just operating routine patrols in international waters.

    Unless they get a call.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 SartreAndSocrates


    I've always wondered, does the Irish Naval service go to much countries when out at sea or do you spend most of your time just in the water?

    It's just a big draw for USA and UK navies for sailors to join since they get to travel a lot, and I wonder if it's the same thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭vswr


    You get to see Dublin, Galway and Cork, a lot.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,135 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No.

    There have been courtesy visits to various spots around Europe, America and Argentina in the past, when personnel numbers were sufficient, but they were rare.

    The NS has participated in UN and EU backed humanitarian deployments in the eastern Mediterranean also, but not recently. Hopefully they will be in a position to do so more frequently as the Defence Forces evolve.

    But for now, its fishery protection, drugs interdiction and anti-smuggling operations, mostly in Irish waters, with short periods in Irish ports and harbours.

    Assuming you're on a ship at all, because shore duties are extensive too, and short staffed.



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