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Football ranking table

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,164 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Good stuff.

    One of the great GAA clichés is "We always do better as underdogs" and the associated "We never play well as favourites". You'll hear everyone bar the likes of Kerry or Dublin claim this about their team as if it's unique.

    It's always interesting to see the rare graph where it seems to be true though, like Monaghan Vs. Mayo. Monaghan's biggest wins vs. Mayo have all come in games where the model had Mayo as heavy favourites.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,787 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I am going to take a guess at who are the "likes of" Kerry and Dublin.

    Armagh, Donegal, Tyrone, Cork, Meath, Galway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Updated ranking table after last weekend's round of games:

    myimage.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    All Tailteann Cup this weekend:

    • Fermanagh have a significant rating point superiority over New York and should get over this one easily at home (this game is not included in the attached PDF)
    • London will be a little disappointed with their result against Laois, as they had previously been doing quite well. Sligo have slipped dramatically lately, but the model is still going for them
    • Leitrim have performed pretty well lately whereas Wexford's form can be a little unpredictable. In their 2nd ever championship meeting, the model is going for a slender away win for the Wexford men
    • Having overperformed in 3 of their last 4 games, Wicklow will be looking to continue their summer run over a Tipp side who seem to stick to script, for the most part. It will be their first ever championship encounter
    • A large rating gap between Longford and Down would normally point to a Down win, but the question is: where are they? the team that overperformed by 13 points, beating Donegal? Or the team that underperformed by >20 points vs Armagh (slips right off the chart!) and by 15 points vs Offaly?
    predmyimage.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,164 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    No, to me Kerry and Dublin stand alone in terms of multi generational success to the extent that them developing a habit of being underdogs is laughable. Between the 2 of them they've won over half the All Irelands ever played with 39 and 31 titles respectively, with the next best county being Galway on 9. All those other counties have had fallow eras where they've dropped down the leagues and been dumped out in R1 qualifiers.

    As for Meath never claiming to be underdogs? We're the worst county for it.

    I grew up in the tail end of the glory years so didn't experience the full thing, but from Meath people's accounts of the era we had some of the most talented footballers in Ireland, won multiple All Irelands, Leinsters, Leagues, All stars, top scorers etc. but were simultaneously underdogs against every single opponent, and fell behind in every game before completing a superhuman comeback to win.

    Makes you wonder how any bookies survived in the 80s and 90s if they regularly priced one of the strongest teams in Ireland as rank outsiders.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Some minor shuffling near the bottom of the table following the decisive games prior to quarter-finals of the Tailteann Cup.

    myimage.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Another avalanche of games this weekend, but best not to complain, it will all be over way too quickly

    • Cork's results generally fall within the expected, whereas Donegal's form fluctuates from +15 to -15 points of where they should be over the last 5 games.
    • A first-ever championship meeting of Roscommon and Monaghan; if Roscommon rediscover their Connaght championship form, they should make their rating point superiority count
    • Kildare's recent form reads poorly (2 wins from last 10 outings, and those against Laois and Offaly); Kerry's doesn't look spectacular either - they have underperformed by between 6 and 17 points in 4 of their last 5 games
    • Derry vs Meath looks like it is going to be extremely tight, with Derry on a slightly better run of form
    • Offaly look like the form team and should get over the line vs Wexford
    • Both Antrim and Wicklow are coming off 2 good results, and their first ever championship meeting should be a tight affair
    • Laois's form looks slightly more consistent, but they are going to have to up it a level to overcome Down
    • Fermanagh seem to have found their mojo since leaving Ulster behind them, and should continue their winning ways vs Sligo
    • Louth rectified the Leinster SFC loss to Dublin with a good win in the "replay", but Armagh have been operating at a higher level - incidentally, this will be the first ever championship of these neighbours!
    • Westmeath are on a great run - 5 wins on the trot - but face a serious test in the West, against a team rated slightly higher than them
    • Tyrone seem to be on an up, with their performances improving game on game; Mayo, on the other hand, try to redefine the word "inconsistency" - the model can't call it
    • With only 2 wins from their previous 12 games (vs Offaly and vs Kildare), it is hard to believe that Cavan are only 4 rating points behind Dublin. But then again, Dublin have only 4 wins from their last 12, and mixed in some heavy defeats. Would a Cavan win be such a huge shock?
    predmyimage.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭Notmything


    I think Laois will get over the line v Down (probably jinxed them now)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭Notmything




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Big changes at the top here!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Huge changes at the top!

    • Due to a great win over Donegal, combined with Armagh's loss to Louth, Cork take number 1 spot for the first time since August 2012!
    • Monaghan gathered the most rating points (6.7) of the weekend following a big win over a fancied Roscommon side
    • Cork, Louth, Dublin and Down all increased their worth by more than 4 rating points
    • Derry's drop to 15th leaves them at their lowest since May 2021

    I was thinking that it couldn't get any more exciting than this weekend's football…….and then I saw the draws for next weekend 🤩

    myimage.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,925 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Cork.... Jesus.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭crusd


    Model appears broken



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 357 ✭✭wackokid


    The only problem with that is refs like Cawley. He gave a young man a RED card for fielding a ball under pressure from an opponent who was literally hanging on to him. Nobody knows what the red card was for. They all have different interpretations of a legal tackle and most of them make up their own rules depending on who's leading and by how much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Six big games this weekend, with 6 teams to drop out of the 2 championships.

    • Armagh's form has been more consistent than Kerry's over the last 6 games, but Kerry with home advantage are slightly favoured
    • There is very little to separate Mayo and Meath - similar rating points, similar run (lost 2 of last 3 games), and occasional very poor results (vs Roscommon, vs Westmeath). Their last championship meeting was 2019, and most recent league meeting 2021, so little recent form to go on. Home advantage swings it for the model
    • Both Down and Fermanagh have turned their seasons around, and it is hard to judge which has been the most impressive. Down struggled past Fermanagh in both this year's league and last year's championship - this might be tighter than people think
    • Offaly are on a nice run of form, and seem to hold a strong advantage over Wicklow in their recent meetings
    • Donegal seem to reserve their best performances for the "best" opposition - will they consider Dublin to be in this category? If so, they should win easily
    • Monaghan seem to be turning their season around at just the right time. Home advantage should be enough in their 2nd ever championship meeting

    tl;dr

    predmyimage.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    No real shocks possible this weekend, any team could win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    to be fair - the table would suggest Dublin beating Donegal was a shock; in practice it wasnt. Mildly surprising at best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    In the Pools competition, 15 went for Donegal, 2 for Dublin, and one for a draw. So maybe not a shock on the Donegal-Down scale, but I was very surprised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,164 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    The table had Donegal winning by only 1.9 points, so it's fair to say it gave Dublin a good chance of winning.

    I'd it had predicted Donegal by 15 points then Dublin winning would have been a "shock" by the standards of the table.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Dogsdodogsstuff


    I’ve been to most of Dublins games this year, it was a massive shock to me and most hardcore fans in the same way Dublin losing to Westmeath and Louth wasn’t.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Ah look, no matter what you cut it - this is Dublin who have won 18 or whatever of the last 20 leinsters, and have several great players still.

    On a different note - special shout out to Monaghan who have beaten the Connaught and Leinster champions in successive games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Well, Cork's reign at the top didn't last long……..😉

    • Kerry retake no. 1 spot with a commanding win over Armagh
    • The big news is the major fall and elimination of 2 title contenders, Donegal and Armagh. Their drop to 8th and 9th, respectively, means Louth leapfrog them into 5th, their highest position since 1983
    • Wicklow's big win over Offaly takes them to 17th, a height not seen since 2010

    myimage.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    The draw plays a big role in the weekly rankings. Armagh met Kerry last week, whereas some other teams may accumulate position before being eliminated by Kerry. This was all because of a single kick which fluked under the bar the previous week. Cork could not be drawn against Kerry so may live longer than Tyrone by beating Mayo, but Tyrone have already beaten Mayo. The same happened last year, Meath beat Kerry when it wasn't important, could not then be drawn against Kerry and so reached the semi-final, and they had a high ranking all year afterwards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Yep, luck of the draw has a major impact on where teams finish at the end of the year. Losing your last game to an opponent who is 15+ rating points better won't have any impact on your own team's ratings, compared to losing to a similarly rated team.

    All the same, since the All-Ireland series has been introduced, and especially the Tailteann Cup, it is rare that there is a huge rating point difference between teams, whereas this was more likely the case when it was only provincial championships followed by All-Ireland semi-finals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    We simply have a more open championship than before, another reason for the positions to fluctuate - how is it that Down can beat Donegal, then Donegal hammer Kerry, and then lose to Cork.

    Partly thats because as mentioned, they are games the top teams can afford to lose; there was no jeopardy (at all) for Donegal in losing in the Ulster Championship.

    On the other hand, there more teams that can potentially turn over the very top teams than would have been the case for example throughout the 2010s.

    Three of the teams that made last years semi finals have not this year made it as far as the quarter finals.

    (PS Galway must quietly fancy it at this stage).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,771 ✭✭✭dobman88


    Kerry and Tyrone made the semis last year and are in the quarters this year.

    Unless I'm misunderstanding your comment?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,421 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I predict that they won't both reach the semi finals.



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