Kilkenny GAA Thread

WE have to do this, WE have to do that, yet we criticise the few that do. How were we expected to continue to compete in the top 2 or 3 at senior level with a depleted squad and no underage success? " Should have started rebuild two years ago", "don't tell me we don't have the players"," Lyng like Shefflin in Galway was short term in outlook". Quotes from recent posters. Talking out of both sides of the mouth." We were stuffed in last years minor semi by Waterford" ,we actually lost a classic by 3 pts to a team that stuffed Clare in the final by more than double scores. Don't let facts get in the way. Our 20s last year much less fancied than this years group won through Leinster in a canter. There was a multitude of reasons we lost the Minor and U20 to Tipp in our own backyard. Lazy option was management, usually is. In KK it has suddenly began to dawn, it's primarily the quality of our players, good but not quite good enough. Constantly berating those that do something, now down as far as Cùl camps, makes the blood boil. Support is not defined by attendance at games or watching from afar. If it's WE, it's us , not them IMO.

well Village the GAA wanted inclusivity for all kids and wanted to get rid of dangerous play, ground pulling pulling in the air and ecpecially getting the ball off of an opponent using the hurl, some people wills off at this as if I’m mad but a referee will blow all those mentioned above without hesitation

Trying to get a dig at me again. The idea of a forum is to give opinions which are right or wrong is up to the reader. You seem to think everyone is wrong except yourself. What you should do is give us an explanation of where the decline in KK hurling fortunes came from. And leave out the personal jibes. Most people on here agree to where the fundamental problems lie. I’m just wondering were you part of the fundamental problems to begin with, away with you and the CB you love to represent.

Bord na Nog championship draws took place Thursday evening and still not up on the website .….what's the delay I wonder

Near full teams for both?

Boro and Thomastown in the final. Great preparation for both teams.

good weather wasted with gap.

They are very lucky we are not lining up to take on Carlow and Antrim next year after their year of sulk. You are not going to get along with every manager, do you think every Kilkenny player loved Cody? You play for yourself first and foremost, then for your teammates, then for the manager. Look at the effort Liam Ryan made to get back on the pitch this year. That's a real warrior - put his body through hell to wear that jersey again.

But anyway, unfair to derail a Kilkenny thread and I won't do it. I'll set up a Wexford one at some stage.

Jaysus War and Peace wasn’t as long a read as that, I only got a quarter way through it and will have to get back to it. He is putting forward the development squad’s viewpoint the biggest question has to be asked is was it regularly reviewed like there is so many issues to be resolved in the squads changes made that needed to be made. I personally am in favour of the squads for one simple reason there is no alternative. The Huge problem is favouritism and canvassing, this absolutely killed it and this is the single biggest problem and any time the squads are mentioned this problem comes up.now the favouritism might sometimes be brought up by a disgruntled parent whose kid failed to make the cut and we all heard those stories as well. My only solution to that is strictly canvassing disqualifies and exposes the person canvassing, the clubs will also have to be honest in who they select like we all heard the club coach picked his son and his sons best friend and two others and failing to pick out a chap with potential due to the coach not liking his father usually all bullshit reasons. Mick Fennelly stated that some chaps had to be coached on the basic skills after been sent into the squads thus delaying training for everyone else, that’s why I was proposing summer camp for all U12 on a skillls only basis with TJ showing our future stars how to catch a ball ( the greatest exponent of that skill of all time), Goalies backs all sharing there knowledge.Seamus Norris’s piece is very good and goes through all the history of the squads but as I outlined above a lot of problems need to be addressed immediately and we have identified the problems which makes it easier

That's a fair cat!

Sorry I've nothing really hurling wise to add, but that's some link image, I wasn't sure what was going to be behind it😅

I read the article and, first and foremost, I want to acknowledge the enormous amount of time, effort and commitment that the people involved in Kilkenny's development squads give to underage hurling. I have no doubt whatsoever that every coach, selector and volunteer involved has the best interests of Kilkenny hurling at heart. Improving Kilkenny hurling is clearly their number one motivation, and for that they deserve our gratitude and respect. I honestly don’t think anyone comes on here to be disrespectful to the people involved and we would certainly be in a much worse position without their work and dedication to the cause. I also understand and totally respect the argument often put forward by neverbet and others on here that if you’re not happy with what you see then what are you doing about it?… give up your free time and see if you can do better so to speak, but surely if you’re not in a position to do that, surely you’re still entitled to an opinion?

I also found parts of the article very insightful. I agree with the point that Kilkenny players may be at a disadvantage when it comes to the modern off-the-shoulder, short-passing game because so many young players now have little or no football background…. a few of us have made that point on here several times. I also think the observation about tactical patterns is accurate. Kilkenny teams are often attacked straight through the middle of the defence, while we frequently build attacks down the wings in a style that can sometimes resemble soccer more than Gaelic football. Again there’s loads of examples of posters on these pages expressing huge frustration in relation to this and these are valid points and worth discussing.

However, the article asks us to judge the development system based on the facts presented, and when I do that, a number of questions remain.

The most obvious one is this: why are players arriving into county squads at various age grades without having mastered the basic fundamentals of the game? Too often we see players who are struggling with first touch, who are uncomfortable under a high ball, or who lack the work ethic and intensity that should be second nature at elite inter-county level. These are not advanced tactical issues; they are basic requirements.

If the development system is identifying every talented player and ensuring that nobody slips through the net, as the article suggests, then surely it is fair to ask why these shortcomings still exist. If the issues around basic skills, tactical awareness and game understanding are so evident, why have they not been addressed at development squad level?

I am not asking these questions to be critical or nasty. They are genuine questions. In fact, I wonder if there is a danger that people who are deeply involved in the system can become understandably focused on the huge amount of work they are doing and the sacrifices they are making, and perhaps find it difficult to see that aspects of the system may not be delivering the desired outcomes. That is not a criticism of any individual coach. It is simply a recognition that every organisation benefits from honest evaluation and sometimes from outside perspectives.

The article is critical of anonymous social media commentators and argues that the current shortage of top-class players is largely a reflection of the talent available. Perhaps there is some truth in that. But a lack of elite talent or the next Richie Hogan or Richie Power coming through…..does not explain deficiencies in fundamental skills, tactical awareness or work rate. Those are areas that coaching and development structures are specifically designed to improve.

So while I fully accept the sincerity, commitment and good intentions of everyone involved, I also think it is fair to say that the current system is not producing the outcomes Kilkenny needs. If that is the case, then surely the most important question is not who is to blame, but I think it’s fair for us to ask why it is happening and what can be done to improve it.

That is not an attack on the development squads. But in my opinion it is a question that anyone who cares about the future of Kilkenny hurling should be able to ask in a fair and respectful manner.

Who do you think are the front runners for Wexford job Billy? I was to a friend from Wexford and he was saying that Skippy Ruth and the Martins manager (his name escapes me at the minute) weren't interested in the job at this point in time. Is there a desire for a Wexford man to take the job or are they open to any interested parties? Would Jason Ryan be the favourite, he'd know the Wexford cub scene fairly well and has managed the footballers in the past?

Not sure, Skippy would be the preference of supporters I reckon if he wanted it but I heard the same rumours as yourself, possibly Joe Fortune, don't think JJ Doyle is an option personally. If we were looking further afield possibly Tom Mullally, he's done alot of coaching in Wexford over the years, Jason Ryan has aswell like you said but I think he's on a good number at the moment with Ballygunner. Davy's name was batted about but I think that would be a step backwards.

Amongst players on 1st development squads TJ, Kieran Joyce, Matthew Ruth ,Richie and Paddy Hogan u14 Forristall, U16 Arrabawn, practically all the panels that delivered two minors in a row '02 and '03 amongst them Cha, Richie Power, Mick Rice, Mick Fennelly, Willie O'Dwyer, Johns Tennyson and Dalton etc, etc Subsequent years Paul Murphy, Conor Fogarty, Colin Fennelly, Cillian Buckley, John Power Lester Ryan, I am sure there was more and we did win many minors and 21s in the period to '14. Can't be denied all the above and apologies to those I overlooked contributed hugely to our golden generation ?There has been a fall off in standard at all levels club and county which has us all all scratching our heads. The author was possibly speaking about from when he became involved with the squads? I again question likening our defeats at minor and u 20 this year to Galway teams that were well beaten later on with last years minor defeat to Waterford. All three games are online and available for comparison. It can be seen last year minor, we were pressing hard for the equalising goal in added time against the subsequent AI champions , and worth noting a goal in the first or last minute of a game still equals three points. As with all my posts IMO, my opinion only and everyone welcome to their own. Maybe leave out casting a critical eye over Cùl camps introduced as an introduction to our games to all 6yrs to 13yrs old countrywide, enjoyment and friendship at its core , plenty of time to get serious IMO. PS absolutely no connection to Co Board, never would but admire anyone that gives their time to their club or county in whatever capacity. The CB get plenty wrong and definitely needs new blood and ideas , but the key question, who is willing to step up?

Our Golden generation was mainly a contribution of older players, Noel Hickey, Michael Kavanagh, Jackie Tyrell, JJ Delaney, Tommy Walsh, Riche Power, Cha Fitzpatrick, Henry Shefflin, Eoin Larkin, Eddie Brennan, Brian Hogan, Derek Lyng, Michael Fennelly, Aidan Fogarty. Riche Hogan was touted as a star the time he was 14. Tj only came to fruition after his minor times, what did he play, one minor championship match ?

Some of the names you mentioned struggled for the years after the Golden Generation retired imo. Basically the Golden generation were made in the local clubs, there own back yard. That seems to be the root cause of where we are failing now.