Kilkenny GAA Thread

As usual, agree with a lot of what you've said here.

On the steps issue, I think increasing the number of steps to 5 is giving them an inch and players will take a mile and we'll see it not enforced correctly and probably see more steps than ever. I would wonder if instead of a ref having to count steps (where players legs move at a blur these days making it difficult to count) would it be easier to count the number of seconds that it's in a player's hand. Maybe a 3 or 4 second rule. This would lead to two things, firstly the faster players would gain an advantage as they can travel further with the ball and so increasing the need for faster players. Secondly, it would encourage tackling and holding the ball up by defenders. Not sure how feasible but it might be a better solution.

I think two referees would be a mess. Would they have to run decisions by the other ref, so that they would have to bring decisions back 10 seconds later when they agree? Would one ref be blowing everything and the other would be working to counteract that. Imagine having two Barry Kellys on the field that want to make the day about themselves!

I don't have a problem with puckouts at the moment. Teams are playing within the rules of the game. I hate to see a puckout to a corner back and back to a goalkeeper but it's a tactical decision and it's up to teams to come up with a tactic to stop it. We shouldn't just change rules because we don't like when people are using them in a way we don't like. I know that's probably an unpopular opinion here!

Yeah I'd agree with you about the 2 refs, could you imagine having a Thomas Walsh at one end not blowing anything and James Owens at the other blowing everything, would comletely distort the game. I think mos of the problem's at the minute are down to not officiating the rules we have rather than making it harder for ref's by giving them more to do. One rule I think they should look at though is bringing in the hooter, stops all the ambiguity around timekeeping.

U14 club hurling results can be very misleading as some clubs will have one or two outstanding talents that will dominate and can literally win a match on their own own. There is a club that won a U14A Championship very recently in KK with only one player on the Tony Forristal KK team and this kind of stuff is common throughout.

Mooncoin are rightly the favourites for the U14A in KK this year but if anyone knows the club hurling at this age group or has seen any of their games this year, they will see that they have two excellent forwards that do approx 80-90% of all their scoring. They do have some other nice other hurlers and are good to watch but would be struggle to compete in the 'A' Championship without these two players that jsut to clarify are involved in the U14 squads this year. Similarly O'Loughlins Gaels also have a star player who is probably the best forward in the county at this age group. OLG also have a centre back who is possibly the best centre back in the county at U14 level but my understanding is that due his other sporting commitment that he is also elite level at, he has declined an invitation for this years U14 development squads. Priority here for the likes of the Kilkenny GAA underage officers is to do their best to accommodate this player as best possible with their other sport and see can perhaps they be lured towards hurling as as their main focus by the time they reach Minor grade.

Also context needs to fully given around the numbers of town players etc in this years squads. I have seen lots of the U14 and U15 squads matches this year. For instance the U14 squads have two panels with approx 60 players but it is very much evident from watching them that of the 60 players involved, over half of the players are way off the standard required. This was seen in recent matches played against Laois. The KK team started with a near as fully strong team possible and were around 10-12 points up at half time. Substitutions were made at half time and early in second half to give some of the weaker hurlers some game time and KK team laboured to a 3 point win in the end. Just to note the matches played are 2 x 20mins halves. This goes back to the point that I made previously on this forum that for what ever reason there is real lack of quality top standard coming through each age group underage. We seem to have perhaps 10 very good hurlers and then maybe another 15 hurlers that would be strong with the potential to become elite. IMO we would be better off focusing on prioritising to see what is needed to make those 15 'Strong' hurlers become elite so that we would have 25 x excellent hurlers coming through at each age group. For example there is a player in this years squad that has very good potential to become elite but he playing U14 D league and championship with his club which is not going to progress his hurling at all so need to see what can be done to ensure he fulfils his potential. The likes of the rank of the 30-60 hurlers in the U14 squads………I think should be given constructive feedback and speed/gym programs and just let them fully focus on performing well for their clubs. From what I have seen of the U14 and U15 squads this year we do not have depth of quality that perhaps people think there is out there and for me that is the real root of the problem that needs understanding and fixing ASAP

If you were prob to pick one panel of just 30 players for U14 KK squad……….the likes of James Stephens would only have 2-3 players max involved, Boro most likely only 1 player and Mooncoin would likely still have 3 involved. You would see the wider and even spread of clubs which can be seen at U15 level because there is only one panel for this age group. Another issue from the watching the development squads the last few years, is the lack of good quality goalkeepers coming through and really think this is something that will come back to haunt in years to come…..…..

I submitted a reply to this survey myself. I included 3 main points.

1. Return ball and hurl to sizes and weights of 20 years ago
2. Add to the handpass rule to clairfy and enforce and back referees
3. Return the underage grades to U18 and U20

The size of the bás of the hurl was supposed to be no bigger than 13cm but was never enforced. The rule was changed to make it 17cm as most players were using that size now, it's still not enforced. Instead of rewarding those who have ignored the rule, change the size back to 13cm and put a letterbox sized stand at the side of every pitch, that the hurl has to fit in, to be allowed onto the pitch. Who cares, what difference? Having a larger bás allows for greater leeway when striking and rewards less skilful and accurate hurlers with an advantage they never had. Reducing this will level a lot of playing fields and the reduced sweet spot will mean you will see a lot less long rang scores. On the ball, increase the weight and raise the ridges again, as again this rewards the most skilful and stops essentially athletes looking like great hurlers, they'll be decent hurlers but the very best will have an advantage.

I checked the handpass rule in the GAA rule book and it says there has to be a clear striking action. For me this is too ambiguous and should have the phrase "there needs to clear separation between hand and ball". If the rule is left as is, you can have the likes of Donal Og and Derek McGrath showing ultra slow-mo's proving the player actually struck the ball. If there has to be clear separation a ref can say I did't see your hand come away from the ball, therefore it's a free. I thought this was already in the rules but it's not. The referees have to be encouraged to blow this foul and I suggested bringing all the pundits to an education day with the referees where they can explain what their being asked to do and why. The one thing I didn't put in is consecutive hand passes. There should only be 1 actual handpass allowed before a puc has to be made. No more chains of 5-6-7 throws up the field in triangles. If you want to play netball/handball there's a whole other game for you, you can even play in the Olympics.

Return to the grades is an obvious one. Most kids doing their leaving now are 19 so in the thick of it for U20 if this grade was U21 they would be finished the leaving mainly by the time their in those squads. Same applies for minor. There's a host of other reasons but I also noted it was ok to ask young lads to part take in a penalty shoot out but not ok to ask them to play before a Senior game. Those who miss or let in goals in a penalty shoot out will be far more scarred by that, than they would be playing in front of a few extra thousand people. Playing in front of big crowds didn't hurt the Offaly minor team that caused such a stir a few years ago.

I would agree on the issue of steps but just to clarify though, the current rule is 4 steps OR the same amount of time it takes to take four steps, which I interpret as 4 seconds. After that you have to play the ball in some way. I wouldn't change the number of steps or the time but it might be easier to just use the time 4 seconds, everyone can count to 4 (I hope). I would enforce it differently and lads getting to take 8-12 steps because their being fouled during an advantage is BS and needs to stop. The free should be given as soon as a pull back is noticed but the foul should be moved up and taken from the spot of the second foul.

Coaches have pushed the rules as is their job and however the rules are changed or enforced, they will push again. The job of the GAA is to back the referees and to come out strongly to defend them and the rules every time a pundit questions them. If the pundits aren't whinging as much the rules won't be ignored as much. I do think referees should be encouraged to be less aloof and to explain and engage with the players more. It will lead to less back chat and questioning which is being curtailed well by the 50m punishment which should stay in place.

I wasn't aware that the rule is the amount of time it would take for 4 steps, that's a totally different number of steps these days. I'm starting to wonder if people aren't actually breaking the rules in that sense because after a bit of googling I saw that elite athletes sprint can take a few steps per second. Are referees following that rule as well? If so, no wonder we aren't seeing steps blown.

The handpass is a blight, but I think 1 handpass is a bit harsh, maybe 3, same as passing in rugby league. Handpassing directly off the hurl is a better solution to me.

I think I'd go with

1. Shamrocks
2. Boro
3. O loughlins (although maybe you're right to have them lower considering the absences)
4. Thomastown (because of 2024 not 2025)
5. Tullaroan (if all injuries sorted)
6. Mullinavat (always at the business end)
7. Bridge
8. Glemmore (off year last year)
9. Comer (I think they'll start improving with all their young players coming)
10. Clara
11. GBC (in a lot of trouble this year with both Billy and Sean Ryan gone)
12. Danesfort

Inter

1. Village
2. Lisdowney
3. Gowran (could be close to the top unless rumours of Michael Carey heading off are true)
4. Tullogher
5. Mooncoin
6. Dunnamaggin
7. Rower
8. St martins
9. Carrickshock
10. Freshford
11. Blacks and whites
12. Barrow rangers (I believe they're missing a few players from last year but could be wrong)

4 seconds would be an age on steps, noting the speed of the cork hurlers for example, they could run 30 metres with the ball in four seconds.... That's not the game I want to watch

I could live with 2, I think 1 is harsh. And then I'm thinking back to Richie Hogans 2011 final goal which had two handpasses and I'm thankful you weren't making the handpass rules! 🤣

If shamrocks can keep mullen fit get eoin cody,Darragh Corcoran,killian Corcoran,Brian cody, shortall and eoin kennealy hurling well they will be hard bet imo mullen on his day is the best in the county when fully fit just a shame all the injuries, Olg will struggle with injuries but I seen on the results that they bet ballycallan by loads last week they surely will be at least semi finalists and once your there antin could happen I heard micky butler got 1-2 from midfield and deegan was half forward both of which were interesting but ik gbc are poor. Boro will have to fancy themselves with the pace they've got and the form lacey is in if they keep shine Podge moylan fit they will be there. Ttown will surely fancy themselves too

Id have glenmore higher than 10 for sure.

I know kk have enough problems of their own but its hard not to feel for keith rossitor. He took over a team that davey had burnt out and key players were retiring. Hanlon,keeffe,McGovern but with fanning,liam ryan,chin,jacko,paudie foley all over 30 its going to be a big undertaking. Keith was the first local man in a while with egan and davey before that. Tom mullally would probably be one of the favorites. He has a incredible cv. It just shows the vision kk county board have that they havent done more to get him involved in some capacity,herity going to tipp was another sleep at the wheel job. If rumours are true herity will be out of a job because cahill is stepping down.To be fair to cahill he got a great tune out of the older group. Breen,2xmcgrath,forde it was hard before last year and the knives dont be long coming out as tipp seen this year when not getting out of munster. It wont be any easier next year although its the last push for conlon,sod and a few more in clare but 3rd place in munster will again be very difficult.

Knowing the county board as most here do its very very unlikely they will go haywire when selecting a manager. Henry will more than likely get it because he is held in such high regard he will be given the benefit of the doubt compared to brian dowling or tom mullally. Henry has the worst cv of all 3. Unfortunately for the new management this rebuild should of started 2 years ago not next year. Huw is suppose to be back in December and billy ryan should be back next year. Poor mikey carey I dunno how he even hurled the last 2 years with all the shenanigans that went and is going on. He has definitely told people he wont be around next year. Players considering their furure/plans are probably waiting to see who will get the job but my thinking would be Henry will get it if he wants it. Next two years u20 teams were the good minor crops brian dowling would be perfect for that job. As most here have said its about getting things right on the ground first but a recent interview with the chairman wouldn't set the pulses racing. All these lads should be made go end of story. Will never and were never strong enough for them positions. Whats the latest with the dump or will that problem go away with kierans give them their new facilities?

Thanks for the update,

would be interested in your opinion on the Rower section that you may have forgot to mention !

Just to re cap what you say - 

Rower 5 -should be 1
J stephens  6 - should be 2/3
Boro 3 -Should be 1
Mooncoin 3- Is correct 
o loughlins 2 - should be 3

So the city team/schools do get the nod over the country teams ! 

Rower is the exception this year as we are going to turn a blind to the father  involved.it’s not on the child , I’m sure the child is good enough.But the optics are all wrong.

Should not have got out the gate. By the club and squad management.We have plenty of people  to take that job on that are neutral.

It’s undefendable ! 



You are correct in that yes,  30 approx on panels should be plenty.But this is not the case for now , 

So then the right thing should be done at all times and that is pick the best 1 -60 in this case.

You seem to have a very good grasp on squads.
But  The following statement/mindset is very concerning for anyone was/is involved in squads.As this could apply to every u14 club team in Kilkenny. But you applied it to the country club only.

Read it again slowly.

‘’” They do have some other nice other hurlers and are good to watch but would be struggle to compete in the 'A' Championship without these two players that jsut to clarify are involved in the U14 squads this year’’’

Fuckin thread is gone to the bollix lately, more of a one up shite or a personal sports column.

I checked out that about the Rower selector and his sons inclusion in the squads I was told the young lad is plenty good enough. Could it be then a case of jealousy which goes on the whole time.