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Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

New gov scrappage grant of 8500

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 379 ✭✭evftw


    Not sure I follow this train of thought: As in 2023 both Germany and France are doing just fine and surpassed their target in that year. And Ireland by a large margin and Italy in lesser extent didn't. So we should just have the worst performing large countries as the target and continue on the path for slightly lesser fines for breaching the targets? Italy didn't meet their goal so we don't need to either because they are a larger country?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    The targets were totally unrealistic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 379 ✭✭evftw


    Yet most of the countries seem to have succeeded reducing their CO2 intensitivity just fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Blut2


    In 2026 neither Germany or France is "doing just fine" as regards to hitting their targets. Neither of them are going to hit the targets, or Italy:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/insight/germany-france-italy-risk-missing-2030-climate-goals-as-spain-excels/gm-GMCD77A7FB?gemSnapshotKey=GMCD77A7FB-snapshot-3

    The issue is the whole system isn't mathematically capable of functioning based on the current projections. There simply won't be enough creditor countries who are on track to hit the targets to sell credits to the much larger, in both size and number, number of countries that won't hit the targets.

    And that doesn't even touch on the fines aspect - do you really think a German government is going to cut social services, or raise taxes, significantly to pay tens of billions of euros of fines? Or an Italian one?

    Its not going to be remotely politically acceptable to voters. Thats why the easy option of keeping the same goals, but pushing them to 2035 or 2040 will happen. We've already seen the goal posts get moved/delayed for the ICE engine ban, this will be the exact same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 379 ✭✭evftw


    All of this is largely irrelevant. It still doesn't mean Ireland should be one of the worst performing countries when almost everybody else are reducing their reliance on the fossil fuels.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,047 ✭✭✭✭josip


    That link you posted looks like a synopsis generated by ChatGPT.

    image.png

    Do you have a link for data published in the original media that we can read?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Its not remotely irrelevant. It means policy makers in Ireland shouldn't introduce overly punitive measures, that reduce the quality of lives of Irish people, in an effort to desperately chase a goal before a deadline that will almost certainly be reduced/delayed at EU level anyway.

    EV car scrappage grants are actually a very positive example of the things we should be doing - they cost little, they improve people's quality of life, and they reduce emissions. But more punitive measures like consistent carbon tax increases on things like home heating oil are the opposite.

    https://reportnet.europa.eu/public/dataflow/1478



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,616 ✭✭✭wassie


    Yep. More carrot less stick.

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,079 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    The targets were easily obtainable if the stick was big and hard enough. Unfortunately there was no stick at all in Ireland because the relevant politicians didn't have big enough balls. Which was disappointing. Meehawl Martin had big balls when he forced through the smoking ban decades ago. First one in the world. This time Ireland is the dirty old man of Europe when it comes to emissions. The country of luddites and laggards…

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,616 ✭✭✭wassie


    We also missed the boat when the Govt could of tapped the bond markets to borrow big time for next to nothing and develop a once in a generation renewable infrastructure fund that could of turned us into a next exporter of energy.

    But 'Steady as she goes' Paschal was having none of that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,079 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Not too late. The $15 billion Apple stole from the Irish tax payer and we eventually got back is plenty to give this country a huge jump forward in renewables to bring it back to the top of the league where we were 100 years ago. Not a joke and not too many people realise it, but at the start of the national grid in Ireland, it was 100% renewable…

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Most of the other countries don't have a the same reliance on farming to be fair, that doesn't help with our CO2 emissions and unfairly sways our carbon emissions

    I believe the original seven turbines off Arklow were about €45 million back 20 years ago. AI tells me inflation since that time is about 54% so we will say €70m in todays money meaning we could install about 15,000 offshore wind turbines at 3.5MW each gives over 50GW of renewable electricity. All paid for by the apple tax scandal

    My grandparents families used to provide digs for the German workers that built Ardnacrusha, and since then the state decided renewables wasn't for them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,079 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Ardnacrusha is a brillant story, everyone should look into that. I finally went to see it last summer

    And as for those turbines - far cheaper than you think they are and the newest ones are 22-24MW each, with 50% power factor on the west coast. So just about 300 of them or so produce more electricity per year than Ireland currently uses

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,779 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    While I get your passion, that's not a proper comparison. We are not all sitting with rooms full of cartons or cigarettes.

    We are however sitting with financed ICE cars, people at different places financially in terms of car purchase and building retrofit. The 'stick being big and hard enough' is morally repugnant. The public must be won over with carrot i.e. sufficient infrastructure. Stick without carrot won't work here.

    Its a bit like George Hook saying, years ago, at the last scrappage scheme, just sell your car and buy a diesel or whatever his line was. That's great; but for there to be a winner, there has to be a loser. Either the incumbent eats the capital loss or they sell the ICE car..to who??? Export them? To Africa? America? That would be greenwashing. So if not that, then ban them / scrap them and destroying people's hardearned money be damned.…

    No, social policy is, in the main, like an oil tanker (no pun intended).

    The move to electric vehicles has to be managed carefully. And yes, all of the climate targets are over-ambitious (the very definition being insufficient advance action to move towards them on the required trajectory).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    So you're saying my figures are out of date and more in-date figures are more impressive? Ardnacrusha was a huge undertaking at the time, I think it was 25% of the budget that year for what was a relatively new state to undertake

    Moving back to renewables was meant to be a stated aim of the green party when they came to power in 2020 but they decided against it. Not sure if it was Eamon Ryan's inability to stay awake or the big ministerial pensions that moved them away from their election promises. Most notably while the greens were in power the EV and solar grants were dropped and we saw a resurgence in petrol and diesel cars



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,047 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Eamonn, and the other party members at the time who were obviously in his thrall, let perfect be the enemy of good. Eamonn had his utopia of a carless society for the masses but in aiming for that, regressed our transport sector for a decade. The Greens are well intentioned but god love them, they have an inability to see the world in anything other than black and white. Joining dots is beyond most of them and the law of unintended consequences must have bought a lifelong membership of the party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    A car free world is a lovely idea to be fair, but it just doesn't work in todays economy, maybe if we went back to the 1800s before personal mobility and showing up to work on-time was a thing. We had a very strong state subsidy for EVs and none for ICE, meaning when you reduce the subsidy people will start showing more interest in its combustion engine competitor.

    The greens couldn't see the error in their ways while it was happening, and being reported on, right in front of them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    Our farming emissions are also significantly over stated by a poorly thought out calculation method which don’t account for the short lived nature of methane nor is the massive carbon sync created by the same farms accounted for.

    Post edited by SodiumCooled on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not many people would say a gas that causes 30% of our global warming and takes 12 years to break down would be classed as "short lived" or "over stayed"

    With that being said food security is quite important so we can't cull the national herd too much either. Everything has to be balanced.

    Moving away from diesel/petrol and replacing ICE fuels with a viable alternative without any major side effects should be considered an easy win



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 63 ✭✭Dazed2020


    Given this is a pilot scheme & the likely demand will see the government call this a resounding success it's probably (not definitely) going to get extended in some way.
    Are there any rumours yet, ideally from clued in sources, as to how? I'd guess a larger scheme would likely be announced in October's budget. Expect any modification in terms? Maybe used, with a smaller discount?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,616 ✭✭✭wassie


    New scheme doesn't start until next month, so will need to see some results first i'd suggest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,274 ✭✭✭✭User1998


    Yet all the dealers on social media are claiming to have already sold loads of EV's through this scheme😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,779 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    What has food security got to do with the national herd?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,112 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Taken orders pending eligibility according to the ones I saw last week



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Do I need to explain to you where meat comes from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭John arse




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,047 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I always found the term national herd amusing. As if we all collectively own them 🙂. Larry Goodman owns them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Did I just hear a drum kit rolling down the stairs?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,201 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,779 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    You need to explain how Irish beef/milk equals food security. We have no food security and most of what people eat is imported. Most beef and milk is exported. You obviously needed that explaining to you...



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