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New gov scrappage grant of 8500

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Absolutely.

    In the face of those offers this incentive from the government is actually rather poor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,112 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Defo not as generous as the headline figure. If you could combine it with an already discounted car you'd get a good deal.

    Although if you have a banger of a car worth next to nothing its not a bad way to get rid of it.

    Although I think its a step in the right direction buying demo models or 6/12 month old cars will at least match this of anyone is disappointed and the grant runs out.

    My father bought a pre reg sportage last year, 4k off list price. For work I bought a renault scenic and a kia ev6 both 251 reg plates and only 2k kms on the scenic and 4k kms on the kia for approx 10k off new price



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    Because they are exceptionally practical, I would have thought that was obvious. With two kids in seats our 5 seater is effecting a 4 seater also which makes it even less practical (and we have a large estate a hatch back would be totally useless for our needs). It’s is a weekly occurance for us to have to bring/send a second car places (and bring a second person to drive it who could be doing more useful stuff) due to not being able to bring a 5th person or often a 6th/7th person. Bringing the cousins places, going to play dates, training, parties where in most instances we would have to bring more than our own kids (or have to refuse where as we can’t fit them while they can bring ours if asked) - the cousins especially is a regular need for us to bring two cars where a 7 seater would suffice.

    Just simple stuff, on Friday evening we were travelling back from training and my father rang for a lift home from the local which I was passing, couldn’t pick him up and someone else had to drive especially to get him instead. More cars on the road, more emissions, more wear tear on cars and roads, more fuel etc. it adds up over time and with lots of people doing similar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    And quarries. The roads leading from quarries to works are destroyed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    Less dangerous for who? Not the people inside them anyway. I like to have my family in a large car as it’s much safer for us (be it EV or ICE). The small cars are ok for people doing minimal driving around the city but both impractical and not suited to families, people doing lots of driving (especially motorways) or people living outside cities.


    Edit: I’m referring to the likes of the inster etc here not the more midsized cars.

    Post edited by SodiumCooled on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    As the scheme is very limited a Hyundai dealer might try to avoid or ghost a customer looking to scrap a car against an inster where the amount of profit to be earned is small and try to hold on to the scheme for an ioniq 5 or larger. Only about 2k vehicles will be covered by this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,112 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Well Fitzpatricks Hyundai sold 5 insters already on it and seemed genuinely happy to have done so. Hadnt sold any other car at all

    If they hold out other dealerships will get the 2000 sales



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,616 ✭✭✭wassie


    Fanciful at best. Dealers have no "capacity to hold on the scheme". It is consumers who decide on this scheme.

    Besides very little profit in most new mainstream cars. New car sales is about volume & turnover as they are purchased by dealers on credit.

    Also makes no sense to ghost a customer and miss the opportunity to make decent profit by up-selling with optional extras like extended warranties, paint or fabric protection, finance etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭khamilton


    Ah g'way out of that, that's just so far from the truth as to be bizarre. Most roads see no farm machinery beyond the odd tractor (which frequently doesn't weigh much more than an E-Tron), the school bus scheme is a trivial number of vehicle trips (and 66% are taxis or 'mini' buses). HGVs and buses do by far the most damage to roads in Ireland, they also travel on a small proportion of the road network.

    I swear, some people just like to see themselves write.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭khamilton


    For everyone else. That's the point. People keep picking larger and heavier vehicles for their own individual safety while disregarding that a) they are making everyone else less safe & b) leading to an ever-increasing size and weight of vehicles (if all other vehicles get larger, you'll want an even larger vehicle than you have now).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,274 ✭✭✭✭User1998


    So far from the truth, yet you's both agree that cars do very little damage to our roads compared to HGV's and other large vehicles? You's are both arguing the same point. Btw, the average tractor weight is 6,500kg vs 2500kg for the E-Tron



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    If that’s your honest opinion, I’d suggest you take a trip down the country to see what vehicular traffic actually travels the rural road network on a daily basis. You won’t find any taxis either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,047 ✭✭✭✭josip


    You don't see many eTrons down the country, much more likely to see an ID4 which is about 2,000 kg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,572 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    How many new car models are smaller than the previous generation. If someone wanted to buy it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,383 ✭✭✭secman


    Had my 2011 Volvo s60 valued, its somewhere beween €3k and €3.5k , but in reality with my service history of the car, it sails through NCT every year, it's probably worth a bit more to me, maybe €4 to €5k so the scrapage deal for me is simply not enticing at all, the other €3.5k is there anyways . I'm out 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,405 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    The average tractor pressure on the road is less than an etron. Just drive either into a field and see which leaves deeper tracks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,616 ✭✭✭wassie


    You right. But dont confuse surface pressure with structural load. Tarmac and mud do not behave the same way under weight.

    In a field, the tractor wins because surface pressure is the only thing that matters.

    A paved road on the otehr hand is essentially a rigid, engineered beam suspended over a dirt sub base. Roads fail because the total weight of the vehicle bends the entire road structure downward.

    Road damage comes down to physics. (Just google Generalised Fourth Power Law)

    Using the above example of the etron & tractor, while it might seem intuitive that a car that weighs 2.6 times more would cause 2.6 times the damage, when we actually design roads in civil engineering, we factor in taht road wear doesnt scale linearly like that. It increases exponentially.

    Ultimately, while heavier EVs will cause somewhat more road wear than older, lighter ICE cars, they do not come close to inflicting the kind of structural road damage caused by heavy transport & agricultural vehciles & machinery.

    Now back to the scrappage scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The grant is paid by the state, not the dealers so it makes no difference if they give it on a cheap car or an expensive one. Also there's a 10m fund and 5k grants so it will be exactly 2k vehicles being covered by this

    The temporary subsidies on fuel duty will be ending at the end of July, possibly sooner because of the recent lowering of prices at the pump, so there should be money in the coffers to hand out more grants in 2027



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    coming late to the thread; what prompted this? did someone in govt realise that the deal done with the hauliers looked a little too much like they were failing to address the underlying problem of fossil fuel dependency?

    so they decided to commit a figure which will cost the government approximately 2% of the cost of the diesel deal, which would amount to less than 2% of new car registrations in a single year?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Blut2


    The government is legally committed to certain emissions goals by 2030, and a large part of that comes from our Irish vehicle fleet.

    To meet our goal we need to have 850,000 EVs on the road by 2030, and its at the moment at about 150,000.

    Thats whats prompted this, and will prompt much larger schemes the closer we get to 2030. The state needs hundreds of thousands more EVs on the road than we have, or are projected to have based on current sales figures.

    €10mn a year for the cost for the current pilot scheme, or even 10x that for a much larger scheme next year, is a tiny fraction of the billions of euros of potential fines the country faces.

    (theres also the significant other positive side effects of lower pollution levels locally, less dependence on importing foreign fuel, safer / more modern cars on the roads etc etc)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭tppytoppy


    It is not the grant. It is the limited opportunities to sell high margin cars before it is exhausted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The govt did say recently that they were unlikely to meet the 850,000 EVs (which was an initial target of 1m) on the road by 2030. My guess is the govt basically just shrugged their shoulders and said "sure f**k it" but the EU is coming along with fines for non-compliance so that's focused their minds somewhat

    The very high margin cars are likely the ones that cost over 50k and they would be ineligible for this grant. Whether the grant goes on an Inster or an Ioniq is irrelevant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,047 ✭✭✭✭josip


    What probably prompted this was a need to remove the €3,500 subsidy from all cars above €50k without attracting negative press that they were discouraging EV uptake.

    It's both unbelievable and no surprise that they will waste a whole 6 months on a miniscule scheme with the massive 2030 carbon credit costs imminent. I suppose we should be grateful they didn't get a committee to hire a bunch of consultants to produce a policy paper first.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    €10mn a year for the cost for the current pilot scheme, or even 10x that for a much larger scheme next year, is a tiny fraction of the billions of euros of potential fines the country faces.

    that's precisely the point, though. €10m is a pitiful amount to commit to this, when they threw about 50 times that amount at making the haulier problem go away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,892 ✭✭✭John arse


    Any figures on what they'll actually save in Reducing the threshold from 60k to 50k at all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Was it even a cost-saving exercise, or just a sop to the motoring community that believes "EV drivers get everything"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Its a pilot scheme. Pilot schemes are always tiny, thats the whole point of them - you test things out, and put systems in place.

    Very high odds a much larger scheme comes in along very similar lines within 6-12 months from this one filling up.

    Oh yeah there isn't a hope we can meet the 850k EV target by 2030. Even if literally every vehicle sold in the country between July 1st of this year and the end of 2030 was EV we'd miss it like.

    But being closer to the targets at least would reduce fines.

    Or, due to most EU countries being on track to miss the targets, what seems most likely now is the EU moves the targets to 2035, but keeps them at the same level. Which we would have some hope of hitting, especially with suitable incentive schemes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,786 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Or, option 3, the EU reduces the 2030 emissions targets and we avoid the fines that way.

    Given the EUs historical attitude to delaying targets that are unachievable, the 2030 2035 2040 ICE ban comes to mind, I'd say you're correct though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,047 ✭✭✭✭josip


    This is something I see posted quite a bit and I think that it's important not to delude ourselves here.

    image.png

    Not surprisingly, most other countries are doing much better than us. All the big countries that shape EU policy met or nearly met their 2023 targets.

    Countries that exceed their targets will have credits to sell to the fúckwit countries who couldn't get their shít together in time. Fúckwit countries like ours, full of fúckwits. Why would those well run countries agree to subsidise us, one of the richest countries in the EU? It will be an opportunity for them to finally extract a few ounces of flesh for all the corporation tax we've been siphoning from the rest of them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,576 ✭✭✭Blut2


    You're quite far off reality there. The 2023 targets were much, much easier to hit than the 2030 targets. They're not equivalent at all.

    Only seven EU countries are on track to hit the 2030 targets as of mid-2026, and that includes none of the largest states. Its only Bulgaria, Croatia, Czechia, Denmark, Greece, and Portugal.

    Which means mathematically there just simply won't be anywhere near enough credits to sell from creditor countries to debtor countries. That by itself would break the planned system.

    But even aside from that, just financially, Germany, Italy and France are not going to let the current goals for 2030 result in them paying tens of billions of euros of fines each, from already stretched government budgets. And they're the ones who largely set EU policy.

    The 2030 goals won't be abandoned entirely, because that would be a huge admission of defeat. But they'll definitely be pushed back to either 2035 or 2040. One to three more election cycles away from the late 2020s, so they can be "more achievable" (and/or another government's problem).



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