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Gript-A source of misinformation. **Read OP before posting**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,763 ✭✭✭francois


    we don't need another thread to descend into thinly disguised racism



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I wasn't being selective i simply scrolled news feeds and they were the 3 most recent stories I found this morning around violent crimes that showed at the time i posted, which at 7:38am just happened to be a lot of court cases from yesterday, coincidentally they happened to be 3 stories that had native Irish perpetrators. You then specifically went looking for stories where the perpetrators were non white/irish in an attempt to prove me wrong so really who is being selective here? Also i don't happen to have a time machine so couldn't see into the future.

    You happened to ignore the main question of why are there only riots when the perpetrator is not white? That post mans murder is fvcking disgusting, they went looking for him with golf clubs. It happened in October last year, did I miss the public outrage and people taking to the streets then? Many knuckle draggers seem to huddle behind the "protect our women" banner yet again theres nowhere close to the visible public outrage and riots in the street anytime there is a case of a native Irish men beating, assaulting or murdering an Irish women.

    The kinneally probe has been going on for years and has had countless stories and updates on it in the time since grift has existed yet today is the first time they have ever posted anything about it, not when he was convicted of more crimes in 2023, not when the probe started hearing evidence in 2024, and not when the report was finished last year, but im sure you will say that's just me being selective or that its old news and the abuse of countless young boys with state and church complicity over 28 years isn't really that important a story…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭Capra


    The very end of that article says "Both studies were funded by the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration."

    You dont think the department that is directly responsible for migration policy has a vested interest in publishing or commissioning studies which paint immigration in a positive light? I suppose you would similarly have no issue with the Irish Catholic commissioning a report on the effects of abortion on womens health?

    I have not read the full report yet but I just did a quick ctrl + F and I dont see a single mention of the remittance or repatriation of money to their home countries. Immigrants in Ireland send home approximately €2.8 billion euro every year or €4000 per immigrant. Thats a lot of money. Its very easy to create a report that says what the people paying for the report want it to say. Im sure there are dozens of other ways they can conveniently exclude info that doesnt suit their agenda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,974 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You have a problem with how people choose to spend their own money? 🙄

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭Capra


    The strawmanning instinct is incredibly strong in some people I see. Such a “good faith” argument you are making…


    I’ll try to help you understand even though you probably just have no intention of engaging in a genuine or honest manner. Irish GDP is considered a useless statistic because American companies repatriate most of their profits and it artificially inflates the positive impact they are having on the economy. If people are doing the same thing (obviously to a lesser degree) then it should also be considered in an economic report discussing the positives and negatives of immigration. That’s €4000 per immigrant that will never be spent or invested in Ireland. Trying to pretend this isn’t a negative aspect of immigrant economic behaviour is blatantly dishonest.

    Is that really too difficult for you to understand?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,974 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Someone takes their family on a holiday overseas they could very easily spend over 4k on accommodation, food etc etc and that money will never be spent or invested in Ireland. Actually many people would spend much more than that taking multiple trips overseas per year

    But it's their money and their choice as to how they spend it.

    BTW, do you talk like that to people in real life?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 126 ✭✭Dub Counsel


    Not all immigrants are equal.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Some are white whereas others are just the wrong colour?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,819 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    A nonsense argument for many reasons but in simple terms, for many people, yes €4000 is a lot of money but presuming those sending that much home are at the very least working minimum wage and working 40 hour weeks (most will be earning more) but that is 30k a year, doing a job that was not filled by anyone here, at near full employment, they will have paid roughly €3260 in wage tax (more is paid more). Follow that by the 23% VAT on most of what they buy. That €4000 is nothing, and phrasing it as billions is disingenuous to the billions that those jobs insure stay in the economy and are also generated by the economy.

    This point is as disingenuous as the Brexit argument claiming they sent X million per day to the EU, it is simply ignorant of the wider picture, but considering your clear and articulate language, has to be presumed to be put forward in bad faith as you can't genuinely be that naïve.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    Love that the British moving to Spain/elsewhere are “ex pats”, never immigrants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,273 ✭✭✭Hoop66




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭Capra


    I'm not saying immigrants don't contribute anything to the economy, that has never been my point. The point im making is that the ESRI is claiming they contribute more than native Irish people to the economy. While that €4000 may be a relatively small sum in the overall scheme of things its still 13% of the hypothetical €30,000 income you mentioned.

    Considering the ESRI claim is that migrants make a marginally higher contribution to the Irish Fiscal purse, leaving out the fact that they send 13% of their income abroad on average is almost certainly done on purpose.

    All statistics and reports can be manipulated and I'm pretty certain that a report commissioned by the department responsible for migration isnt going to commission a report that undermines their policies. Does it even compare like with like? How many migrant pensioners are their in the country who paid their dues 30-50 years ago? Is comparing the fiscal impact of a retired 70 year old native with a 30 year old immigrant really fair? It talks about the fiscal impact of migrants on the economy during the crash which was nearly 20 years ago now and when our immigration policy and where the immigrants were coming from was nothing like today. Reports like this are usually published for the benefit of those who commission them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭Capra


    The very report we are discussing says migrants from Asia receive unemployment at a rate of 12% vs 21% for migrants from Africa and Eastern Europe. Its probably to do with culture more than skin colour but that trend is repeated no matter where you go in the world.

    I think its pretty absurd to claim that the state will reap the same fiscal benefits from accepting for example 1000 people from Somalia vs 1000 from Hong Kong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,232 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Ben putting in a performance once again despite being outnumbered on the panel as usual including the host.

    Interesting information here about Ben personally. He said in this video his own mother is a Jamaican immigrant and Fatima we know her father is from Pakistan. These people just get it despite only 1 Irish parent.

    I'm on the verge of a site ban. Please don't rage bait me, I'm easily triggered especially late at night!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Lol outnumbered? The far right racists in this country have never managed to poll nationally above the margin of error let alone win a Dail seat, even if you include right wing populists like aontu, II et al you get a FPV of 8% but they still only managed to get 6 seats after transfers so 3-4% of the dail. 1 of 4 on a panel is if anything grossly overrperesenting his and his bigotted supporters views.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,232 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Aontu is left wing and playing the race card doesn't work when we're talking journalists who are half Jamaican and half Pakistani. They just see common sense on an issue the vast majority of Irish agree.

    The host is funded by the government the lady to his left receives state funding for her NGO too. Outgunned but well able to stand his ground.

    I'm on the verge of a site ban. Please don't rage bait me, I'm easily triggered especially late at night!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    He is first interrupted when he claimed that "beheadings or semi-beheadings are becoming normal". And you are surprised that this nonsense is challenged? 🙄
    From that video, Ben just wants to talk about immigrants involved in violent crime while quickly dismissing the "frenzied attack" referred to in NI.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    He's being challenged, there's plenty of extreme violence perpetrated by Irish people in the Republic and North of Ireland. In fact the man who was attacked was previously tortured in a pretty brutal fashion in Scotland by a criminal gang associated with the UVF.

    Scallan here appears to be pretending like there aren't plenty of seriously violent crimes perpetrated by locals. Northern Ireland has a huge gender based violence issue. It's got Loyalists who still behave like paramilitaries. Ben seems happy to dodge the fact that the greatest fear in Belfast this week has been caused by the rioters which have been egged on by the likes of Elon Musk and Tommy Robinson. There are people who have had their homes burnt down because they're not the right colour.

    A pogrom has occurred in Belfast and there's not a mention of it on gript, it's focused solely on the attack. There's no mention of the rioting, let alone the fact that the victims family have condemned it. They are agenda driven and have no intention of pursuing serious journalism. It says a lot about a publication when they actively choose to not report on riots that are being reported on globally.

    He's definitely putting on a performance but it's playing to the lowest common denominator.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Double post



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    It is apparently to difficult for you to understand, although I am unsure why because it has been spelt out clearly to you. Just because you have a negative, does not mean that the overall thing is a negative, and your oversimplification about €4000 per immigrant leaving the country is misleading in the extreme. I gave you back of the envelope figures that heavily skewed the data to sound as negative as possible towards immigration and it still paints the economics of those migrants in a positive light. The truth is, our employment rate is the highest in Europe, we have under 5% unemployment, if these immigrants were not here, these jobs would not be either, foreign investment would move, auxiliary jobs would decline and so on.

    Your Brexit like simplification of this to a single number of how much is sent abroad is misleading at best, but an outright deception if we are being honest.

    As for the ESRI biasing a report to favour the department is not how these reports work, and the data would show them up quite quickly, and people who are against immigration would be able to actually pull the report apart very quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    They just see common sense on an issue the vast majority of Irish agree.

    Fire ahead with your source there please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,923 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    'We are living in a country where beheadings or semi beheadings are becoming normal'

    How is that in any way a factual, rational comment? It's pure and utter over the top shite, which is what I have come to expect from Gript.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Just in relation to the "beheadings" nonsense from Scallan, I've heard it from various sources on the right that the attack in Belfast was an attempt at a beheading while the police in court described it as stabbings in the back and head. Has anyone a source for what the likes of Scallan was suggesting?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I never played a race card i just referred to him and his ilk as far right racists, also once again the results of every election held in the history of the state show no evidence that anywhere close to a majority agree with his position.

    And its Virgin Media not RTE so the host is not directly funded by the government, the VAST majority of Virgin Medias funding comes from commercial operations, they receive small grants from the government but the recent 3 million one that lasts over several years is a drop in the bucket compared to their annual revenue off 55-60 million.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 239 ✭✭Capra


    Ah thats just amusing really. 😂

    People who are against migration can and do pull apart studies like this all the time. I've already been able to poke holes in it and you simply dismiss it with nonsense and arguing against points I am not making. You clearly want to believe what this report says because it aligns with your views. Then you started rambling about Brexit.

    Your "back of the envelope calculations" were addressed and nothing I said dismissed what you said. You are trying to claim I am saying they have no economic benefit when I acutally said the statement that they are more fiscally productive than Irish people is dubious at best and a conclusion most likely achieved by omission of facts and figures.

    Your dishonesty in how you argue is so obvious. You cant actually address people who challenge you without misrepresenting what they say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,020 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It's a total myth by the Gript crowd that the media are all on the payroll of the government and are being told what to say. The Irish Independent received around €300k last year out of an estimated total commercial revenue of around €25m. The Irish Times receives no money whatsoever from the government.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,415 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    The stabbing case is an Irish citizen who was originally an asylum seeker, not an illegal immigrant



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