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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed (Threadbans in OP)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,409 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Amazing that this new info regarding the distinctive individual knock has only come out after Shirley and Alfies death



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    It's just more Molony rubbish.

    Here's the quote from the article:

    "The local informant, meanwhile, alleged that Shirley and Alfie were in bed when Bailey’s distinctive knock occurred, suggesting he wanted to party……………She claimed Shirley had told her, shortly after the murder, that they had ignored the knock because it came in the early hours on a bitterly cold night, and they did not want to get up…………… When Shirley was asked in recent times about the claim – which the local woman claims to have written down when told, keeping the document ever since – she denied that anything of the kind had happened."

    Answers on a postcard as to who his "local informant" is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    I don't think it's remarkable that Alfie and Shirley heard nothing during the night. You would need to know what exactly preceded the fatal blows that killed her at the gate. If she had an altercation with her killer up at the house and, in fear of her life, managed to flee down the lane with Mr X in pursuit then that would have been a terrifying moment for her and you might expect her to call out or scream in that event. Maybe she felt she wouldn't be heard regardless.

    Alternatively, if the initial interaction with the killer took place at or near the spot where her body was discovered she was likely just stunned into submission by the first blow. It can sometimes take a lot to rouse someone from a deep sleep. The sound of raised voices at a distance of one hundred metres would not necessarily do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    We basically don't know and can only speculate. It's all hard to say.

    However a certain suspicion will always fall upon Alfie and Shirley.

    They were the only ones alone with Sophie that night and that in a remote location.

    They knew that Sophie was at her cottage, and most likely that she was staying alone.

    Alfie was in trouble with the law before.

    They were by all accounts not the best of neighbours.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 322 ✭✭Zola1000


    You referenced the misinformation on your posts few pages back. So I've responded to that already. Go have a look and dig out misinformation



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭tibruit




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭Baz Richardson


    Because they can hear a knock that has not been mentioned for 30 years but not a violent assault. Makes perfect sense, oh wait.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Oh go on then, I`ll take you through what you didn`t get step by step.

    You said….."FFS so now there is a distinctive knock being heard from 300m away through bedroom windows"

    You clearly misunderstood the Moloney piece and concluded that the woman was claiming that Shirley had heard Bailey knock on Sophie`s door. It wasn`t Sophie`s door, it was Shirley`s door.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 690 ✭✭✭juno10353


    If Sophie was running from her home and attacker would she not have run towards neighbours rather than away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 322 ✭✭Zola1000


    Well there is nothing really to say.. You referenced misinformation in the posters here.. I'm just struggling to see where is the misinformation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,037 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    A point that has indeed been noticed before.

    If you were being attacked on your own doorstep, you most surely would call out for the neighbours who are only a short distance away, or if you escaped you'd run there and bang on the door. Help, help!

    The murder took place down at the open gate into the lane. That has to have been where the attack happened. It is possible that Alfie and Shirley, asleep at their house, just didn't hear the row,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,061 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "It`s always advisable when you believe you`ve heard something ridiculous to think twice before you respond."

    You should take your own advice. listen to Molony in the embedded podcast, about 25 mins in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,409 ✭✭✭Deeec


    In fairness it is hard to think logically when under stress. Sophies instinct was to run when under attack and probably didn't think of what direction she ran in - she just had to get away.

    Now it may be significant that she didn't run to her nearest neighbors home for whatever reason but possibly she didn't get time to think logically.

    But yes her best chance of safety should have been to run towards her neighbors screaming. The chance of neighbours being alerted may have scared off her attacker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭tibruit


    My back and forth with Baz Richardson was based on quotes that you provided yesterday from Moloney`s article. It was obvious that the unnamed informer believed Shirley was referring to Bailey knocking on her own door. I haven`t read the entire article and I haven`t heard the podcast so I don`t know what you are specifically talking about. If Moloney claims it was Sophie`s door then I would suggest that he is wrong and that he is making the same error that BR made.

    I notice how you can`t hide the vitriol that you have for Moloney but I was surprised that you put up yesterday how he doorstepped Shirley and she confirmed that she saw Bailey, Bolger, Alf and Sophie together. It is just further confirmation, as if it was really needed, that anytime Bailey said he never met Sophie, he was lying. It also supports Alfie`s claim that he introduced them and Bolgers claim that he witnessed the introduction.

    I suppose it makes difficult reading for you and a few others given the effort you`ve put in to discredit Bolger`s and Lyons`s claims over the years. Is that where the vitriol comes from? Surely Moloney was doing a good thing getting that interview and clearing up your confusion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭tibruit


    This is ridiculous. How can I either defend myself or acknowledge my error if you`re not going to specify what it was? Don`t make accusations if you can`t back them up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,409 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Whether it was Sophies door or Shirleys door Maloney was talking about, it is irrelevant. The nonsense bit which everyone is reffering to is that this 'knock' was definitely Bailey and that this bit of info has only being released to the public now.

    Most rational thinking people would think that this is more nonsense that Maloney made up to make more money for himself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    I don’t see any evidence Sophie ran at all, if she was attacked at the gate area and died by the gate, it would indicate that she was knocked down and then unconscious within seconds.

    There is minimal other blood away from the gate area really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Alfie, Shirley and Bolger have 3 different versions of the introduction. So at least 2 of the 3 of them are mistaken/lying, fairly easy to assume all three are mistaken, or do you only hold Bailey/Jules to the iron clad story standard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 984 ✭✭✭flanna01


    Objection your Honour….

    There was multiple blood splatters on the gate (which was in the opened position), and heavy blood loss on the ground beside the concrete block (one would assume her head was laid in this location as she bled out), but there was also evidence that she had become caught up in the briers too (scratches to the body, clothing ripped by thorns etc..)

    To me, this would indicate a struggle to escape her killer.

    Did the original assault begin by the gate? Did the first strike by a rock draw blood and daze Sophie momentarily? Did she touch her head, see the blood and stagger backwards reaching out to the gate to support herself?

    Although stunned, did she realize what was happening and try to make a run for it, only to lose her balance and fall into the briers? Was a stunned Sophie then dragged from the briers by her assailant, and further battered by the heavier concrete block until she met her demise?

    I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest the assault was not started and ended in the exact same location, I would suggest Sophie put up a fight but was too dazed to outwit / outrun her attacker.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Orban6


    Would one of you experts please solve this case soon.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭Baz Richardson


    No I didn't. You didn't read the Moloney piece at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭Baz Richardson


    Indeed, neither Alfie nor Shirley initially claimed that Bolger was there. Bolger claimed it later and Shirley years later. If there were witnesses to the introduction then Alfie would have absolutely said so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Ah right. So you think that Shirley`s door is 300 meters from her bed. OK then. Big house. Big big house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Her clothes were still caught in the briars when she was found, and she was basically right where the gate latch is located, so we’re talking about a very small area really. My point is there is no evidence she was running in any direction. She was likely knocked down within a few feet of where the altercation began. She probably was only aware of what was happening for a moment I would think, perhaps even only conscious after the first hit for a few seconds.

    I don’t think we can really infer anything about the direction she was running, she probably didn’t even get a chance to run imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 322 ✭✭Zola1000


    It's very simple. You said there was misinformation, I'm just asking you what you are referring to?. I'm not making any accusations, unfortunately you are the one that is making them.

    Tell me where there is misinformation is all I was asking. These are cornerstones of case and unless you have information to contrary please post them.

    -Case is near 30 years unsolved

    -We do not know the time of death

    -We do not know did the killer walk or drive.

    -We don't know of any murder weapon or have none in evidence albeit block/stones at site.

    -We have no DNA at scene. Presently there is reference to unknown male DNA not Ian B but still under review.

    -We had 50 suspects and the 1, how and why was that arrived it, and would it change much today with cold case review team.

    -All other information surrounding the case, how do you know what is misinformation and what's correct.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    I was told the cold case review team has one suspect and the rest they weren't allowed interview/pursue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,037 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    The post mortem report describes extensive injuries to Sophie's hands: her fingers were damaged. This suggests a desperate fight to save herself. She was conscious at least long enough to try and fight back. God rest the poor lady.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,593 ✭✭✭jesuisjuste


    Yes that's a fair point alright, she was certainly trying to protect herself for a number of the hits. Still though the attack to knock her into the briars, and render her semi-conscious etc. could have been fairly quick, maybe not seconds, but I think could easily be less than a minute. And she perhaps didn't get any chance to run imo. It was just a brutal attack, and the person could have been out wandering the community for decades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "fairly easy to assume all three are mistaken"

    No it isn`t. In typical conspiracy theory fashion you are zoning in on peripheral fluff and completely ignoring the big picture.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "I`m just asking you what you are referring to?"

    No you`re not. I`m asking you. You made the allegation about me. What a headwreck. Multiple times in the past you called me out for not engaging with you. Maybe now do you get it?



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