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Meanwhile on the Roads...

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Scrabbel


    Edit: sorry, meant to quote/reply to magicbastarder.

    Maybe just 1 exception would be where the opposite carriageway is less than the width of a car plus the required 1 or 1.5m clearance (plus of course a couple of feet to the right of the overtaking car so they're not bang up against the right edge of the roadway.). So less than approx 3.5m-4m wide depending on the 1/1.5m clearance required.

    On the last question, if a road is too narrow for a safe overtake then according to Reg 9, there is no obligation at all because it's impossible to allow someone to overtake safely (as just one example, a road that's only 4m wide, unless it's a bike or a motorbike overtaking a bike)

    Post edited by Scrabbel on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So you're really persisting with your ill-informed sh1te despite being educated on here several times?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Scrabbel


    Edit: sorry, I've done it again! This one is meant as a reply to Seth Brundle

    I'm not any way relying on any attempt to claim a lane or carriageway is the same as a roadway. I agree with your reading of the definitions of those 3 words. (And of course some roadways don't have any marked lanes or carriageways.). The wording in Reg 9 after "roadway" is particularly important and can't be ignored. If it just stopped at "roadway", then there's no debate.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    No. You are attempting to redefine the legislation to suit whatever daft agenda you are chasing.
    What you are interpreting as cyclists keep to the left of the road is not what is defined in the legislation and you do know this so it is completely disingenuous of you to continue this disingenuous crap for over two years.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Scrabbel


    I've quoted the legislation but you seem to have ignored the second half of Reg 9, after the word "roadway". Rather than throw more insults my way, maybe you could actually address that part of the wording.
    All I'm trying to highlight is that there is some level of obligation on a cyclist (which includes me on a reasonably regular basis) to cycle in a manner to allow a safe overtake (only a safe overtake) , when possible and safe. That's all, doesn't sound too controversial.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭khamilton


    He has addressed it. I've addressed it. At least 3 other users have addressed it.


    There is no obligation on cyclists (or vehicles) to stay left inside a lane, only to stay on the left hand side of a roadway. The section is literally titled "drive on left" not "drive to the left". In natural english, the left hand side of something is not in any way equivalent as "to the leftmost of your left hand side".

    The plain language interpretation is for drivers to not to unduly obstruct a carriageway by failing to stay on the left hand side of it, not to torturously redefine words to make it as an obligation to stay as left as possible so people can overtake you while in the same lane as you.


    Yet here we are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Scrabbel


    I never said it required people to make space to allow an overtake in the same lane; it's obvious for example that an overtake by a car wholly in the same lane could never be safe in a typical lane of 3.5m width, there's just not enough space.

    Just going back to the wording of the regulation, it refers to driving (which includes cycling) in such a manner as to allow a safe overtake, where safe and possible of course. It doesn't attempt to go into more detail as to how that might occur on the range of road widths and formats that there are, just where it's safe and possible. Some posters made good points around this, that there can be more than one way to allow enough space. That made me agree that it wasn't always necessary to go as far left as possible and safe, just far enough (while safe) to allow a safe overtake.

    I guess some of you might be getting tired of me repeating some of this (as am I) but I only do so when my own words have been misconstrued or misquoted or not considered fully.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭khamilton


    1. You're still ignoring the difference between 'left hand side' and 'to the left/as left as possible'
    2. The section that follows section 9 says its illegal to overtake if there's oncoming traffic in the roadway, which, when read in conjunction with section 9, makes it clear that section 9 is only interested in ensuring that people do not drive in the middle of the roadway (hence 'drive on left').
    3. If you need to have any part of your vehicle in another lane for overtaking (ignoring roadways for a moment), there is no difference between being fully in the lane or partly in the lane - if you overtake in such a manner that you don't have time to overtake while fully in the other lane, it is axiomatically a dangerous overtake.

    This has been pointed out to you repeatedly but you keep coming back claiming that its everyone else twisting your words, when the reality is you are quite literally refusing to read the actual words of the legislation and inserting your own.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭BP_RS3813


    I have started to take the road recently due to that fact.

    My what you would call 'crusing/easy speed' is 22/23kph/15mph due to the years of running and cycling fitness I've built up. Its just safer with the cars at that point.

    I've only started recently with the weather - with more and more cycling to work its a lot more stopping and starting whilst being careful looking for pedestrians.

    In the winter I find its generally much less busy with the weather and lack of sunlight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    The worst roads are 80kph or 100 (because cars generally do 100 anyway) with little or no hard shoulder. Eg the embankment road nearer to Brittas. Tight, narrow and windy. Traffic fast and in a hurry. If you try and "take the lane" a bit then you've up to an 80kph speed differential between yourself and traffic coming from behind. So they're way more inclined to just power through, both fast and close and probably laying on the horn as well. It's pretty horrible.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    You actually, definitely, and repeatedly, said, it was an obligation for cyclists to move left to facilitate an overtake.

    I think you've caught yourself in a logic loop though. By your own words, only when it's safe to do so. But it's only safe to do when there is enough space that moving as far left as possible not necessary to accomplish this. When it's not necessary to do this, you don't have to do it.

    So, there is nothing in law, bar what seems clear to everyone but you a requirement to stay to left hand side of the roadway you are on. Even the ROTR give primary position as the midpoint between the centre line (painted or not) and the left edge of the roadway.

    For me the biggest issue is your use of words like obligation, required, and similar when it simply isn't stated in law or in RSAs interpretation of the law.

    I'm bowing out anyway as I don't think you are grasping what others are saying and interpreting it as some call to ride dangerously. I respectfully can't take this seriously from someone who both admits to riding illegally and in my opinion dangerously ( 3 abreast until they notice a car).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Has Scrabbel gone back to the motoring forum yet?

    Another evangelist wandering into the cycling form for avbit of divilment, comes up against some of the best debaters on Boards, and doubles down on a pointless argument before picking up the goalposts and repositioning them somewhere else.

    I thought we had rooted them out by now, but no…seems there's an endless pipeline.

    "But, but, I cycle too!!".



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i've always wondered how much of an effect smoking has on the chances of a collision. holding a glowing ember in your hand will certainly not increase your driving prowess.

    was nearly sideswiped earlier by a driver (i was also driving) who we subsequently passed who had a fag in one hand and was operating her mobile phone, on one of those cradles stuck to the inside of her windscreen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Thise cradles are an abomination alright.

    Some horrific driving out on the Wicklow 200 today. Like the whole of county Wicklow was enraged by a once-a-year event taking place.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    You are 100% right. I often wonder though why Wicklow CC don't act more proactively. Last time I done the Wicklow 200 there was a lot of American tourists partaking. Maybe it doesn't fit in with their anti cycling stance.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i do remember reading speculation about how many totally unexplainable fatal car crashes are caused by wasps, or other critters.

    but there should be at least a little bit of data about non-fatal crashes caused by wasps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Macy0161


    I'd no way defend Wicklow co co, or Wicklow drivers, but the weekends are normally a sh*tshow with jackeens. If Wicklow co co wanted to be pro active about rubbish driving, they could ban those feckin go cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    I got excited there for a minute and was all ready to second your motion to ban those feckin Dubs 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I haven't noticed the Go cars being particularly bad. If they're going to turn cars back at the county border, start with Audis.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,392 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    SECONDED!!

    D Reg's - Audis - Mercs - SUVs - Beamers - Golfs… can be the first round of sanctions.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    actually, it used to be that the cars i would avoid were ten or fifteen year old passats (with reg plates from certain counties i won't name, lest anyone take offence), especially with nurburgring stickers. but that fad seems to have passed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    The former Passat owners passed all their electrical exams and moved up to 10-15 yer old A4s and A6s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    I was in a scrap yard last week with a PSV inspector.

    One of the yokes he had to examine was a 01 B5 Passat with "lowered" springs.

    They lower them by cutting them and putting them back in; with predictable results.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 16,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Much as I try to remember to keep my teeth clenched while gasping for air on steeper climbs, I do keep a couple of anti-histamines in my saddle back for fear of inadvertently inhaling one at the wrong moment. Maybe it is a bit early in the year still, but the swarms of flies going uphill seems to be less of an issue than in previous years.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i inhaled a fly a few weeks ago, when we had a brief summer, and managed to eventually cough it up, but it left a distinctly lemony taste in my mouth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,858 ✭✭✭standardg60


    A mate got a wasp stuck in his helmet a few years ago, and was duly stung before he could stop and take it off, not a pleasant experience.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i was on a sportive (the only one i've ever been on) and one of the lead cyclists was stung on his eyelid about two thirds of the way through. he insisted on finishing though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭BP_RS3813


    Jesus.

    I did a sportif (100 miles I think it was) and fell and broke the arm on mile 99 - adreneline got me through last 3-5 mins and finish line was in sight.

    Can't imagine having loss of sight for a third of it.

    Hardy Fella



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,288 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    oof. did you it was broken straight away?



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