Israel/Palestine Thread

Thanks ILO !! ^

"Palestine scored a significant diplomatic victory on Wednesday after the International Labour Conference overwhelmingly rejected an Israeli-backed effort to reverse its status within the International Labour Organization (ILO).

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"The vote [by ILO] reaffirms the growing international recognition of Palestinian statehood …"

Yes, it does. I'm thinking of Palestine’s status at UN, as a Permanent Non-member Observer, being reserved for sovereign countries which are recognised internationally as states.

OVERWHELMING CONSENUS
Significantly, a definitive count of 157 out of 193 (81%) UN member states have formally recognised Palestinian statehood.

5 Permanent Members of UNSC have Veto Powers:

US, a Permanent 5 (P5) member has been using its P5 veto power to unilaterally block Palestine being granted full UN membership. The draft resolution vote at UN Security Council won’t pass if one specific country of P5, with its veto power, votes NO. US single-handedly killed it with its veto.

The draft resolution would pass if a P5 country abstained. And to pass a draft resolution you also need 9 out of the 15 countries involved to vote YES.

In April 2024, Palestine received 10 YES votes out of 15. Below succinctly confirms:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148731

“For a draft resolution to pass, the Council must have at least nine members in favour and none of its permanent members – China, France, Russia, United Kingdom, United States – using their veto power.”

Your posts, and others, about the UN are a meaningless project really. Their resolutions, proclamation, rulings or whatever else they have come up with have lead to nothing. The mess has continued unabated and relentless. The UN has become virtually a meaningless sound off with as much power as this thread in reality. The veto that the permanent members have has just about shown it it up for what it is. Its not even involved in ongoing negotiations. There's little respect for it anymore.

It is of course just my opinion. I read the news, I, like others have been horrified by the events that have and are happening. The UN, aid agencies, any other organisations involved haven't managed to put a dent in anything Israel has done. The biggest press now isn't about the humanity of the situation, its about getting the oil flowing again.

Starry hadn't a go at my post, he had a go at me Cluedo.

If I belittled his post he should defend it. I offered an opinion on the content of the post and posts like it. I didn't ask Starry anything about what he was doing. His answer as is yours is to personalise it. As yet no one has shown one thing that the UN has done that has changed anything about the situation. Apart from soundoffs, what have they done?

The problem is for Germany on this issue is somehow certain politicians don't understand that they have the responsibility to prevent genocide not a responsibility to enable another one.

You would imagine given they took part in two previous ones during the last century that other states in the world will not support them given their current position. Given the lack of enforcement and rules applying to some and not others it is no surprise it is falling apart and states get called out for double standards.

The FM even mentioned it after the vote.

The UN's aid agencies and other organisations aren't able to "put a dent into what Israel has done" because Israel and the US continually block them. Israel won't allow UN aid agencies into Gaza because they don't want the truth of their genocidal warfare against the Palestinians getting out more than it already has. The US continually vetoes UN resolutions against Israel because they want their psychopathic partner to be a future ally in wars against middle eastern nations. You're seeing, in real time, what that future looks like because this war against Iran is just the first. There will be more as oil really begins to peter out and they'll make this current conflict look like a kiddies party. You say it's about "getting the oil flowing again", well yes it is and it will be until we globally get off of that particular hook.

You aren't the first poster to blithely point a finger at the UN, but the question is what would you put in its place? Because without it the world would be in a much worse situation. But like any organisation, it's subject to change and it also has its flaws.

One big change I would put forth is the abolition of veto powers of the five permanent members and a move to a more democratic measure of a ruling majority vote from all of the members. That alone would get rid of this cozy relationship that Israel and the US have with regard to their atrocious behaviour in the region and go some way to putting some manners on Israel and reining their necks in.

At present the US simply vetoes any UN resolution against Israel and Israel relies on that to continually get away with, literal, murder and land theft. These resolutions are overwhelmingly supported by the majority of members, but a single veto by the US gives Israel a pass to do what they want. This shows that only one of the permanent members has to act in a malicious or self serving manner to kill a resolution aimed at minimising the harm that a nation can inflict upon others when it's at the beck and call of a malevolent leadership like Israel is.

Again, though, I ask you what would you put in its place?

Because without the UN, even with its flaws, the world looks much, much, worse off.

The reluctance to sanction Israel begs the question of what does Israel have over certain EU nations that makes them reluctant to act against its atrocities? We know the hold it has on the US and it has far too much say in UK politics as well. Germany's obvious albatross around their neck with regards to Jews will also be there for at least another generation which completely paralyses them. But, as a whole, the EU's hesitancy to act in a meaningful way should be pause for thought too.

As I've said numerous times on this thread and elsewhere, any other nation doing what Israel has done (not just in the last two and a half years, but for decades) would have sanctions up the wazoo. So why not them?

In fairness we did see the EU flatly refuse to get involved in the Israeli led, illegal, war against Iran. So that's something to applaud them for I suppose.

However, the EU is no replacement for the UN and it was never designed to be something that was to act on a truly global scale. It's first and foremost a continental trade bloc with some political machinations attached and, frankly, the EU's biggest reason for existing was the marginalisation of American economic influence in Europe and in that respect it's been a resounding success, which is why the American right wing hates it so much and wishes to see it destroyed.

As far as the UN is concerned, though, we must remember how that particular organisation came about in the first place. It was born out of the chaos of the Second World War and designed to limit or prevent war on a local or global scale. This was especially important with regards to the Cold War turning "hot" which it was very effective at. I shudder to think what might have happened if it never came into existence. However, in the modern context we can see where the cracks are with regards to more localised conflicts, especially where vested interests are concerned on behalf of the five permanent members. That's something that certainly needs to be changed. But those that say that we should do away with the UN as a whole really need to think about what comes after if such a thing were to come about, because I doubt it will be pretty.