Return Rubbish

I dont see it as whataboutery at all.

Look at incidents like this:

https://news.sky.com/story/thousands-of-tons-of-uk-plastic-dumped-across-world-11218595

It demonstrates that organisations can and do greenwash and make false, inaccurate or incomplete claims about such initiatives.

Whether through incompetence or marketing disingenuousness they are well capable of pulling the wool over the eyes of the general public about the reality of the benefits of schemes etc.

The Return website is a case in point with false claims made for the scheme and recycling.

I think it likely that not all items collected are recycled. Some could be incinerated or landfilled or dumped in the sea. It depends on the economics and scrupulousness of whoever Return sent the items onto. Bundles could be sold on to outside the EU and after that anything could happen.

So while I would not go so far as to say probably most of it ends up outside of recycling nor would I consider it a conspiracy theory to propose it.

Guaranteed stream, not system. Do people just read what they want to read these days?

What's your point here? That sometimes it's not recycled and might be incinerated? And, what, we should go back to the old system where sometimes it's not recycled and might end up in the bushes? Surely you can see which of these two options is better, no?

Being shipped abroad and recycled/incinerated is still leagues ahead of "in the green bin, maybe, or the black one….or the hedge, or the canal, or the…….."

Proof that Re-Turn fans have flip flopped from recycling to collection because they cant back up the recycling claim? What a bizarre request for proof. The posts are in the main Re-Turn thread.

So no, you don't have any proof then? Good to know.

Edit: just saw your abusive posts towards elperello…….good luck, and welcome to the ignore list

Thats just confirming its irrelevance. It can in no way show what happened the items once it reached those other companies nor would that come into the consideration of those preparing the accounts.

The landfilling and dumping could happen outside the EU if sold on by the other company. Regardless of where it could occur, you have not shown how that would amount to Return breaking any laws which was your original claim.

The money trail does not show what happened a bottle and it is getting desperate to suggest it does when backed up by abslolutely nothing. It is a money trail only. Look at the traceability for food. Why was that needed if accounts and money trails could be used to follow it?

They are the board and employees of a company. They didnt set the scheme up. What is the direct link between the government in establishing the scheme and the objectives of those remunerated to implement it? It is an indirect link only and the interests can diverge.

We have seen banks and businesses and 'charities' run into the ground by its board and employees to the detriment of shareholders or the mission of said charity.

The worse RTE conducts its financial affairs the more it gets bailed out by government.

The government just cared about ticking a box to meet an EU collection target. They have handed over responsibility to something under even less control than a quango.

So why not? Why cant they abrogate responsibility that way? You have been asked and have failed to provide any legal or regulatory reason why they could not.

So of course they could plead ignorance and walk away. This is Ireland. We dont do accountability. No doubt a report might be commissioned, 'lessons learned', a token early retirement or resignation as a brief holiday before getting back onto the gravy train. No long term consequences.

You are outlining what should be the situation. But you have provided zero information of any legal onus on Return or any case precedence to support it, your claim is getting more unconvincing with each post.

If the bottles sent by Return to another company, then to outside the EU and is landfilled or dumped...

What actual crime is committed? It may not even be illegal under that country's laws.

You have completely failed to show that:

1. A crime is committed

and

2. It would have a legal / criminal / regulatory consequence for Return as a party to it.

Yeah, you brought up the EU multiple posts back. You are now ignoring the multiple subsequent posts where you failed to explain after asking how it would be (a) a criminal act by Return if done indirectly by a third party they simply sold the recyclables on to and (b) how it would be a crime if done outside the EU.
As you've had about half a dozen posts now to try to back it up, it is logical to conclude you cannot back up your claim.

How it is 'logical' to conclude that it would be fraud?
Argument by assertion once again based on absolutely no foundation, evidence, case law, nothing.

You now introduce a new red herring, seemingly this scenario involves 'false figures' being reported to the EU. Plucked out of nowhere. Based on absolutely nothing just a notion in your head as to what is logical or should be the case. The figures to be reported to the EU relate to collection only. Unless you can provide any such basis for those reports to the EU, you appear to be engaging in the same muddying of the waters as on the Return site where they state they are setup to meet EU recycling targets.

There are no such EU targets. Just Return pulling the wool over the eyes of the public as to what happens with the items collected.

Well Irish Rail are using the bin raiding as an excuse for not installing the machines

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-rail-opts-against-re-turn-machines-due-to-people-raiding-bins-for-empty-bottles-and-cans-1909669.html