Air Corps / Force General Discussion - Aircraft, Manpower, Policy

if we went for a couple of NH90 for ASW, while going with something different like the 149 for the transport replacement then the 90s would be orphans within the AC or NS (depending on who ends up crewing them), bespoke supply chain, training and support package. When in the history of the DF has something like that ended well?

IF and it’s a HUGE IF we were going to stand up such capability (which I think we all doubt) then it should be as much as possible a common purchase, we don’t have the numbers or budgets for tiny fleets.

Speaking of the 145M, going by the fact we are apparently paying 5 mill per helo more than Cyprus paid for theirs and after a chat with Kevin g(some of you may know hm, former AC pilot) I'm thinking they got the full spec version similar to the Luftwaffe's SOF version. hopefully it comes with the MX15 optical/targeting turret giving them a precision weapon capability…well except for the Spike ATGWS

Don't add a token capability without giving adequate numbers and supports and call it anything other than tokenism. There is zero possibility 2 airframes will handle training, maintenance and operations with anything close to an acceptable rate if at all. Hell whats the NH90 ASW reliability rates at right now in established naval services?

Its as much of a stunt as say buying trainers and calling them QRA cause they are "Jets". Two simply can't do the job, hell three would be pushing it to reach barely operational, if its to be a stand alone buy for the NS for ASW at least 6 to give a viable operational pool.

But reality is reality, its not going to happen. Jan 1 2027 the LoA2 quietly gets taken out and given the death the department has wanted to give it since 2022.

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-defence-forces-pdforra-rank-and-file-members-recruitment-irish-defence-forces-7036633-May2026/

While some well meaning commentators here are day dreaming about QRA, helicopter capable naval vessels, aircraft conducting ASW operations and all the other Tom Clancy stuff..

lets talk about the most glaring issue, which is critical to developing or enhancing any capability.

Forever the optimist Labre34.

All its taken to "stand still" effectively has been the most concentrated and labour intensive induction period in the modern era coupled with removing assessment elements and reducing standards to get people across the line.

That coupled with increasing the mandatory retirement age across the board has bought some time. Yet despite all that, overall strength has just about stabilised and while the 11,500 target vanishes until the mid 2030s.

100%.

You can have all the fancy equipment you want but if you lack the critical mass of experienced people to operate it, it isn't a legitimate capability.

The Government will stumble across the line, the the presidency over and then it'll be back to the status quo.

Shiny equipment will encourage people to join.

However their is a significant issue of retention within the DF, particularly in speciality fields. The attraction and benefits of the private sector and the long running pension issues will continue to be very difficult to outpace in terms of pension and recruitment.

This will be exacerbated once the older members start retiring at the new age which kicked the can down the road a number of years.

Yet again i am not shocked.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41855091.html

there’s optimism, wishful thinking and then delusion. Think you are well into the second heading for the third. A delay to wait for a national security strategy that was meant to cover 2021-2025 and hasn’t been published by June 2026… Tied into the suggestion that the 139 replacement is dead, with the clock ticking down to the next general election…

The Government are screaming from the rooftops quietly that they have abandoned any notion of LoA2 and are actively and deliberately working to fail to sustain LoA1. Unless the French have the mother of all penalty clauses written into whatever we’ve talked about, then come 2027 a very quiet abandonment of the radar and vehicle buy will be the news.

Anything to be said with a stragetic review on the commission on Defence with further working group and maybe some surveys to really inform decision making.

If we are being honest, the CoDF was out of date a number of months after publication.

Nearly 5 years later, a "review" would be just what the doctor ordered.

Are you moonlighting as an Assistant Principal in the Dept of Defence?!

You'll make SecGen if you keep it up.

Only 6 months and 25 odd days to go!

In other news, spotted this on @mupper2s feed, two of the P9's training for interceptions

https://x.com/EISNspotter/status/2061885275106615331

because we are talking about Ireland and defence matters and there is zero evidence of anything but the status quo of running down the DF from any of the actors.

For example, it’s curious to me that while we have an actual contract for the sonar systems and visual evidence of them being manufactured, nothing on the radar systems for the 60s, no price tag that the state is to pay, no selection, even though they are meant to be installed in the same refit that is due to commence next year. The actual land based systems, well again, nothing happens by January 1 2027, I can see them being “delayed pending review”, unless as I said the French have made sure we can’t back out.

The cynic might wonder just how active the process is, and how it’s being progressed?

The armour buy is more likely, for the simple reason of the Army having the greater say in defence procurement, and the fact that they can be used in parades for TDs to announce how wonderful they are.

Like I said, only the naive or the foolish would give any benefit of the doubt to the DOD/Finance/Government at this stage, four years on and feck all but the Government Jet has been pushed through.