Air Corps / Force General Discussion - Aircraft, Manpower, Policy

Larbre34

New general air component thread, to satisfy the pedants.

vswr

Do we include transport aircraft?

sparky42

maybe that will cause a complaint about it being in the other thread as well?

/s

To be serious though, that article about the helicopter renewal is interesting in the quantity of helicopters we perhaps should have had and the future taskings. I mean take the suggested ASW role, surely that suggests a minimum of 3 dedicated for that role?

jonnybigwallet

I read somewhere recently that the RAF are about to decommission a number of very recently acquired helicopters which appear suitable for ASW.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123481479#Comment_123481479

Yes, because the purpose of that thread has been fulfilled, the replacement planes are now in service.

Larbre34

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/defence-spending-ireland-6709871-May2025/

Flippant articles from ex flyers who know better and ought to be more serious, do not help.

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123483396#Comment_123483396

Two MPA C295s are in service, plus the four PC-12s. On order are the transport C295 (has it flown yet?) and the Falcon 6X.

roadmaster

Since 112 looks to be staying in place for the foreseable future and we know that service is eating the hours on the 139 fleet.

Could we see some extra 139s leased to supplement the air corps untill the 139 replacement arrives?

Larbre34

The 139 replacement hasn't even been conceived of yet, let alone gone to market for options.

Considering the crewing situation, I can envisage perhaps 3 or 4 of the 139s being kept in service and two laid up, until the 4 H145Ms begin arriving in about 18 months time, at which point they can take over the EC135 and some of the AW139 taskings, being a larger and more capable airframe than the 135 anyway.

In short, no, I don't foresee the need to lease any interim rotary aircraft until the fleet renewal projects come due and recruitment of flight and ground crew can be brought up to a level to maximise the operational potential of an expanded fleet.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123484660#Comment_123484660

it’s slated to be another G2G purchase, so no market involvement, thought it was still pencilled in for starting this year?

Larbre34

Ah yeah, I meant in the sense of actually beginning the process in a serious way rather than actual traditional procurement. I do hope it does begin this year, but I won't hold my breath. And even then, with demand on the makers being what it is these days, I can't see delivery until well into 2028.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123484660#Comment_123484660

The risk is what happened with the MV Mathew operation when they had to use 112 because all other 139s were down.

There is 6 x 139s which 112 is using 4 to keep that operation going. That leaves 2 for all other air corps operations which is very thin line to work on.

Add in all the other work the fleet does and the damage done by Bami buckets the fleet is on its last lags without a major refurb.

It could also be the case that an order has gone in for the 139 replacement and we could have a new fleet arriving in 3 years.

The second part of the article will be interesting about 3 different aircraft could be needed

Larbre34

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-air-corps-air-traffic-control-crisis-shut-down-6715785-May2025/

You will all recall the context of the phrase 'thundering disgrace'. You will also know that the quote was changed for public consumption, and that Minister Paddy Donegan at the time actually said fūcking disgrace.

Well this is where we are now. At a point where the management of our military is simply a fūcking disgrace and a joke.

Negative_G

This is why reading posts on here about "what jets we should buy" are so hilarious.

So far removed from reality its incredible.

Deluded.

roadmaster

At least they dont have to worry about Top Cover since 2Excel have that under control.

In the Article it says there maybe an issue with Pilots returning from overseas training who will need to get there hours up.

Apart from the Casas going to Shannon what is the issue in deploying other Aircraft to either Shannon or other regional Airports to keep all flying operations going?

EchoIndia

Long trip in a C295!

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2025/05/28/leading-kinahan-cartel-figure-sean-mcgovern-being-extradited-by-uae-to-ireland/

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491934#Comment_123491934

I'd say secure facilities. The Air Corps might not be much to write home about but it is still a military organisation. That means that they'll need a secure ramp/hangar to keep the aircraft, as well as a space for mission planning and where sensitive equipment can be set up/maintained. Now, some aircraft are more sensitive in this regard than others, I'm primarily thinking of the C-295s, the ISTAR PC-12s and the PC-9s, but the basic requirements apply to the entire inventory.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123491801#Comment_123491801

Pretty embarrassing alright but are we really surprised? Defence and security in this state has never been taken seriously.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123485986#Comment_123485986

[MOD] Ahem.

Some posts deleted. May as well try to get this new thread off to an approachable start. [/MOD]

roadmaster

Development Land for sale.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2025/05/29/air-corps-being-cut-to-part-time-hours-and-may-soon-cease-flying-due-to-manpower-crisis/

@Manic Moran maybe can clarify this but rather than the Air Corps trying to promote NCOs to officers and adding extra managment the defence forces should be introducing a US Style warrant officer role who only jobs such as ATC and Cyber etc. An then give them the pay allowences for there roles?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495337#Comment_123495337

Is a warrant officer a civvy-type role where you don't have the normal time served in the forces?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494716#Comment_123494716

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=4ca420

I'd say the rounds of pot-noodle is getting long in the tooth on that flight.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495382#Comment_123495382

They can be that, if that's what the civil power in a particular country wants them to be.

But in practice, a WO is a person who has come from the enlisted ranks, who has attained a high level of a particular skill or specialism, who can lead and instruct in that field, and advise leadership on matters involving their skills.

For example, a master mechanic could be a WO in establishing and overseeing a shop to maintain armoured vehicles in theatre, where there are atypical conditions such as desert sands or arctic ice, because they know the practical engineering of the equipment better than anyone in service.

Or perhaps a special forces operator who, by dint of experience as an NCO in the field knows more about the lessons from practical field operations than any other, may be appointed a WO to train others and to sit on command staff groups to advise on operational matters.

WOs are indeed officers, but made by warrant of the civil power, not commissioned, so the parameters of those appointments is pretty open.

emo72

Anyone know why 2 army helicopters were flying around ballyfermot yesterday, also garda chopper was there as well. Maybe something to do with mcgovern being extradited back to Ireland today?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495887#Comment_123495887

Moving money to the currency centre in Sandyford.

emo72

Thank you. That makes sense.

roadmaster

The funnyist part of the report in the times is someone taught they can operate GASU out of Cathal Brugha.

The IRCG have sone issues with trying to get the base open in weston can you imagine the heart failure my locals in Rathmines with EC135 starting up at 4am in the morning.

Larbre34

It'd be much more fun to see how they would operate this off the 90m wide parade ground.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495337#Comment_123495337

Labre has this covered pretty well.

The US has had two 'categories' of specialist person. One was the rank of specialist, which had multiple pay grades up to the equivalent of 1SG (Company sergeant) without the authorities of the rank. Sortof related to the old Tech Sergeant of the 1940s. The other was the Warrant Officer which does have authority of rank, but whose career path is very much defined by the job he or she is a specialist in, and whose authorities tend to be on that job. Commissioned officers have much broader roles.

I am honestly unsure how other nations achieve a similar result. Warrant officers in the British system, for example, are considered equivalent to senior enlisted NCOs in the US.

roadmaster

Talk about passing the Buck! With the statement from the Taoiseach surley all the General Staff of the Defence Forces and the GOC of the Air Corps have no choice butbto hand in there Resignations.

https://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-irish-air-corps-air-traffic-control-crisis-6718699-May2025/

Negative_G

look on the bright side.. The Air Corps has gained an additional 3-4 full Colonels since the CoDF.

Maybe some of those can man the tower.