Israel/Palestine Thread

I see these leftist jibes here, it gets my goat.

I'm not a leftist (little from column A little from column B) - and am completely against this conflict and our collective indifference to it. All of our rights and protections are being eroded to facilitate it.

As for all the "right wing" people supporting this - which I'm sure you see yourself as one - it spits in the face of conservatism as I know it and gives all the milestones and achievements of the last 80 years to the left which is a revision of history and untrue.

The conservative and Christian democrat contribution to the post-war democratic order in the west is enormous and overlooked by the modern iteration of right wing, which is (I believe) a corrupt and authoritarian outfit wearing conservative / religious clothing and spreading hatred so we all fight each other while their backers do what they like - as they pull the rug out from under us.

Did you know @SeanW - conservative and Christian democratic leaders helped build the many of the institutions in the west after WW2 (the UN, the EU, the council of Europe etc) - conservative parties across Europe defended religious liberty, freedom of association, private property, independent courts, and limits on state power.

Conservatism was not opposed to human rights or international cooperation. Rather it saw them as safeguards for civilization, freedom, and peace.

For example, the European convention on human rights was a mostly UK conservative initiative - look at them now trying to leave it as bluffers in that party (along with the likes of Farage) just want to gain power purely to make money and have us all too busy to notice or care.

Many of the ideals you term as leftist have historical roots in anything but.

They are not western, as only 40% are of European origin and wast majority of those are of russian background (and vast majority of those only claimed to be Jewish to escape USSR) which would go a long long way to explaining the cruelty especially since this is the lot most often involved in settlements too

Hell most of the European origin Israelis been leaving in droves back to US and Europe in last few years as it turned out to be not the promised land it was painted

I really don’t understand the self flagellation and self imposed guilt over what happens in that godforsaken part of the world whom look down and sneer at us. We ain’t responsible for that part of world and way too much capital, effort was spend trying to bring peace to a part of the world who don’t care and more interested in furthering centuries long grudges often cloaked behind messed up religious fud

No - Washington is in Tel-aviv now !

Deranged lunatics in belfast

Why are they targeting Zara?

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So does the same logic not apply to Intel and mobile phone/laptop users? Does that not also "support Genocide" or is giving up the tech devices that people enjoy in life too big an ask of the virtue signalling types?

Because that idea was rebutted here a few days ago as dumb. Yet here we are.

The hypocrisy of it all.

Miniegg wrote: "… but Israel is a democracy - or however possible it is to be one when engaging in apartheid."

It’s not a democracy if Israel is denying REPRESENTATION to the Palestinians - Israel has become an apartheid state.

In the West Bank and East Jerusalem (“technically” West Bank), the people who live there don’t have equal voting rights because it depends on whether they are Jewish or not.

To be clear, The Jewish Israel population has full Israeli citizenship. A neighbouring Palestinian does not have Israeli citizenship, they cannot vote in Israeli national elections, and are governed by Israeli military law instead of civil law.

Refer B’Tselem’s Statement, that also mentions Gaza:
https://www.btselem.org/publications/202210_not_a_vibrant_democracy_this_is_apartheid

“In the West Bank, Israel supposedly transferred some powers to the Palestinian Authority. It has since used this move to perpetuate an illusion that political power in the West Bank is divided, with Israel and the Palestinian Authority each acting independently and as it sees fit in the areas it controls. Israel works to uphold the perception that everyone in the West Bank has a political system in which they can participate: the settlers vote and run for Knesset and the Palestinians for the Palestinian Authority. However, the Palestinian Authority can only govern very limited aspects of life in Palestinian urban centers, and usually requires Israel’s permission even for that, while Israel retains control over all major aspects of life – including the use of force, incarceration, the justice system, planning and building, freedom of movement (to and from Israel, Jordan and Gaza, as well as within the West Bank), resources, the population registry and many more. Regardless of whether elections for the Palestinian Authority are held – there have been none in many years – the true control remains in Israeli hands.” ⬅️

*The Oslo II Accord divided the West Bank into three administrative zones (controlled by Israel and PA). Area C which makes up approx 60% of land, is controlled by Israel. In Area B (approx 22% of land), PA has civil control, and Israel controls security. In Area A, the PA has both civil and security control.

Importantly, Area C circles Areas A and B, enabling Israel to control the land connecting Palestinian towns and cities. This would mean encircled Palestinian towns would be cut off from one another and have to cross through Area C ’s controlled roads and checkpoints. Have you heard of EI , that is, “Apartheid Road”? Below is a good catch-up article:

JANUARY 2026
‘Israel poised to start construction of bypass through heart of West Bank’
‘Road project, part of blueprint for new illegal settlement in E1 area east of Jerusalem, is considered a tool of annexation’
By Emma Graham-Harrison / Tue 13 Jan 2026
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/13/israel-start-construction-bypass-west-bank-illegal-settlement

“Israel plans to start work next month on a bypass road that will close off the heart of the occupied West Bank to Palestinians and cement the de facto annexation of an area critical for the viability of a future Palestinian state.

“The road is a key part of the blueprint for a vast illegal new settlement in the E1 area east of Jerusalem, which would fragment the occupied West Bank. The Israeli finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, said the plans were intended to “bury the idea of a Palestinian state”.

“Designed as a sealed transit corridor for Palestinian vehicles, the bypass will provide Israel with a pretext to bar Palestinians from existing roads in the planned settlement area, where only Israeli vehicles will be permitted. [...]

“It will also be an instrument for ethnic cleansing of remaining Palestinian communities in the area said, Hagit Ofran, a settlement expert at the Israeli advocacy group Peace Now. “They want the land, they don’t want the people,” she said. If the new Israeli settlement is built, it will in effect sever the north and south of the occupied West Bank for Palestinians, and further isolate occupied East Jerusalem from other Palestinian communities.

I read in above B’Tselem link that Palestinians PETITIONED Israeli Courts in a formal legal lawsuit. This is the judicial exception where, since 1967, the Israeli Supreme Court (when sitting as High Court of Justice), allows any individual regardless of citizenship, residency, or even a tourist from Ireland, to file a lawsuit against actions taken by the Israeli military, government departments... planning… My understanding is it can be a vehicle for people who have no civil rights under the state.

The many twists and turns... ^ This exception doesn’t equate to democratic representation because Palestinians can’t vote for the government, or shape the laws used against them. With regard to "Apartheid Road", it’s anticipated the Israeli Ministry of Defence will contend the project is a security road (effectively segregation) bypassing standard planning committees ensuring any Judge will be hesitant to intervene. In other words, it’s rare for a court to override military orders regarding the occupied territories.

We know from wide publicity, the Israeli settlers in the West Bank answer to Israeli civil courts, while Palestinians answer to Israeli military courts, which have a high conviction rate. HROs cite nigh 100%; UNICEF cites a 99.74% conviction rate for Palestinians. Around the time of Ben-Gvir s ‘Gallows Law’ being enacted, B’Tselem released a statement citing a 96% conviction rate, based on so called “confessions” made under torture / duress during IDF interrogations.

East Jerusalem: ^ Refer B’Tselem statement for details.

Summing up, overall:

“One regime governs the entire area and the fate of everyone in it. This regime operates according to a single organizing principle: advancing and cementing the supremacy of one group – Jews – over another – Palestinians. Under this regime, Jewish citizens have the monopoly on political power. Only they have a true seat at the table where their fate, and the fate of Palestinians, is determined. “This is not a democracy. This is apartheid” - B'Tselem

Its the hypocrisy of it.

"Every purchase you make is enabling the genocide in Gaza"

So, again, will the people for example demanding the FAI boycott the two games with Israel be holding themsleves to the same moral code they expect of others when it comes to what they themselves purchase (tech, pharma products, insurance etc)

The answer is no. So it is virtue signalling.

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I did read your post.

Your just deflecting away from the hypocrisy of the virtue signallers who want others to suffer the result of a boycott but they themselves will continue to do the very thing they are protesting against (funding the genocide) because they want to live the comfortable life they have.

They want the nice phone, the nice laptop, they will go to work and earn a living using platforms which have been built on Israeli manufactured goods or tech.

They will shop in a supermarket which stocks israeli produce but they want others to not shop where they decide people should not shop because "it funds the genocide"

Can you not see the hypocrisy?

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If your argument is that people who oppose wrongdoing must first eliminate every trace of indirect involvement in that wrongdoing before speaking then you've invented a moral standard that nobody on Earth can meet, including yourself regarding the causes you said you stood for*. It's not hypocrisy, it's reality.

You are saying unless someone throws their phone in the sea, quits their job, abandons the internet, and lives in a cave, they're not allowed to oppose the thing that you aren't even defending in the first place.

That's a very convenient rule for ensuring nobody ever opposes it isn't it?

Ah, but it's not hypocrisy really.

It might suit one person to boycott Zara while it might better suit another person to boycott AXA or Barclays or Intel.

The boycott is the important thing - anything that deprives the genocidal regime of revenue, however miniscule or apparently insignificant.

Personally, I try to avoid buying Israeli products, or products associated with Israel, wherever possible.

At the same time, I won't bin my laptop on the basis that it might have Israeli components - but I will be better informed the next time I need a new computer.

A lot of multinational companies are discovering that any association with the blood-soaked regime is bad for business.

A society that celebrates rapists is sick.

Oh along with being morally pure before they are allowed to protest they also have to travel to the Zara head offices in Spain to do it? Or I don't know a shop in Tel aviv? Would that meet the impossibly high bar for what people are allowed to protest, or what are you proposing?

It seems there are v simple things you are intentionally not understanding in your valiant quest of not defending Israel.