Air Corps / Force General Discussion - Aircraft, Manpower, Policy

Your first mistake was thinking Craughwell understands what he's talking about himself.

Tbf, the Department has fine form in that as well, I mean for me, its not even the idea that we might buy some ASW equipped helo's, its the fact that I can't see the departments ever signing off on the volume of usage and training needed to actually get skilled in ASW work.

he seems to have decided single sourcing everything from them is a risk if relations sour…. Though if that was the case I think we’d have far greater concerns.

Either that or someone else has given him a reason to stir shite.

Did you get any Traction on X about the NH90?

If it is, that's just pathetic tbh, not like the Brits and French haven't bought stuff from each other before, besides given some of the "issues" UK defence procurement has had, even without Brexit I'd question going with them, with Brexit France makes much more sense.

Actually there was a tidbit and from an unexpected place…Conor Gallagher a journalist for the Irish times replied to me that there is talk of getting the NH90.

I know there are opinions on him as a journalist etc so take it how you will.

You know my take on any equipment talk..

And I share it, however something like this is actually what I'd expect from DOD, the LoA2 says to increase the helo fleet, so instead of adding a few more of what we have, or replace the entire fleet, instead add a few orphans that introduce more headaches than they solve, satisfy nobody and makes things worse.

As I alluded to in my own tweet reply to you (but didn't expand on).
Buying NH90 when we have already committed to the H145M, is IMHO an act of madness that will fragment maintenance and training.
The NH90 isn't a bad bit of kit, and we aren't the Aussies.
The issues they encountered aren't something I believe would be an issue for Ireland.
It's also a large helicopter, meaning that should we plan on resuming shipborne helo ops in any new naval vessels?
That commensurate large flight deck must be planned for on what will be a corvette sized ship.

One of the primary advantages of the Airbus HxxxM series IMHO, is the streamlined training and maintenance pipeline.
From pilots being cross airframe capable due to single cockpit config, to spare parts, simulators and procedures being far more compatible across the fleet (apart from specific airframe parts).

If we buy ASW capable Helos? (And we should).
We should IMO, line up behind the French and adopt the H160M as the basis of any potential but.
That would also leave me leaning towards the H175M for our AW139 replacement, but that's probably too sensible for our DoD to get behind.

But 2 for ASW is just tokenism, at the very least it should be 3 or more ideally (assuming of course the NS ever gets a new ship order, let alone a helicopter and ASW capable design), 2 is just “doing something to give a performance”. If the 149 fleet is getting replaced and expanded it should be in one single order.

As a former regular around here is oft to say.
3 is 2, 2 is 1 and 1 is none.

I'd also make the point that even with 2 NH90s, fully operational and available 24/7 (via some kind of magic).
That they would only ever be able to ensure continuous monitoring and prosecution of a single ASW target.
What happens if there's something suspicious in the Celtic Sea?
Then something also pings off the West Coast?
Yes, we can hope to hand off one of them to the RN or the MN but surely we must do better.

I've been told on several occasions by separate usually well informed folks that whatever ships the NS get next will have heli decks etc…

One can only hope that the necessity and sense of inclusion of such seeps through to the bean counters.

At some point either something gets bought or it gets abandoned. Given the PR waffle you’d imagine something with a dedicated ASW variant gets bought to replace the 149s at which point you have the “nothing is cheap” issue.

Now again as I’ve said, I’m firmly in the Jan 1 2027 the government announces that everything is fine and really the President and the Tankies were right after all position…

An orphan fleet is an orphan fleet, worst of all worlds, but again very DOD nonsense.