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Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Unfortunately FtD we will have to agree to disagree on this also!

    Ryan played the week before against Ulster. The full 80 minutes.

    If it was RGS that started ahead of him I might say ok; but it was JJ.

    JR was on the bench. He was considered fit and he should have started.

    Just like vdF should have started.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,070 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah I expect SP to be exposed defensively at 10, but it doesn't really happen. There are other people to do the defending for him and they're pretty organised. There's less space to attack in the 10 channel as a reault so it usually works out fine.

    He can be exposed in unstructured play, but generally it works out OK at 10. When he's in space, he let's himself down, but at 10 you get the best of his strengths and the weakness is less prominent and the rest of the team can mitigate the weakness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    What are you disagreeing about? That he was coming back from long term injury?

    He played against Ulster, in his first game back after months out. Hardly ideal prep.

    I don't see this as some sort of controversial dropping, and I doubt many do tbh.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Given Ryan going off early was in no small part to blame for the loss a year earlier I don't think it was a bad idea to plan to have him for the end of the game and going 80 would have been a tall order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭conquestscarer


    Was pretty much agreed on that he was very rusty the week before and should have come off the bench as Jenkins was in great form at the time. He ended up coming on at half time as Jenkins got injured.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    There's an assumption here that if you lose a match, every decision leading up to that defeat must have been wrong. Even if people cannot verbalise it as such, that's what we're talking about.

    Had Ryan started that match, he likely would have come off after 50 mins anyway, meaning Jenkins would have played out the remaining 50 minutes. As it was, Jenkins played 40 and Ryan 60. Likewise, VDF actually played 55 minutes and Connors 45, despite the latter starting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    You'll have various liars pointing out he missed a tap tackle against France….

    On the one hand you bemoan the conversation becoming about Prendergast. But then post things like the above, just for someone having a difference of opinion. Do you not see how these things are related?

    when the entire rest of the team were AWOL but that can be ignored.

    Incorrect. Loads of people at the time said the rest of the team weren't good enough too. Both things can be true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    There's an assumption here that if you lose a match, every decision leading up to that defeat must have been wrong.

    I disagree. The assumption is that, different decisions could've lead to a better performance, and potentially a better outcome.

    Nobody is saying that had Leinster, say, started Jordie Barrett that they definitely 100% were certain to win. They're saying it would've given Leinster a better chance of winning. Subtle but important difference.

    With regards James Ryan, I have some sympathy for Cullen. My suspicion - admittedly with nothing to back it up - is that he was hamstrung from the IRFU from starting both Snyman and Barrett in the same game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭For Petes Sake


    With regards James Ryan, I have some sympathy for Cullen. My suspicion - admittedly with nothing to back it up - is that he was hamstrung from the IRFU from starting both Snyman and Barrett in the same game.

    Total bollocks. This is a European Champions Cup semi final. If the IRFU are trying to get involved then any coach worth their salt should be telling them to where to go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Dont take this the wrong way but why would I be disagreeing with the facts? re: injury

    I think you and I both agree as to how important JR is to Leinster (And Ireland).

    Demonstrated by Ryan getting injured v Eng in 2022 6N in early March.

    His next game?

    (9 weeks later)

    QF v Leicester. Again Played the 80.

    If JR is fit, he starts. It was a mistake to me because JJ is not in the same class.

    I mean the bigger point I was actually making was about Conners. He also started that Ulster game. Was it also the correct selection to bench vdF?

    I think they were both errors of judgement by Leo.

    They are part of an ever growing list.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    I rate JVDF more highly, but I get the decision to start Connors in that game. Connors at his peak was an exceptional player, and one of the best tacklers I've ever seen. The thinking was probably that put Connors out there to try and take the sting out of Toulouse's big carriers early on, and then spring JVDF off the bench to bring impetus, carrying and momentum in the second half.

    I'm not necessarily saying it was the right decision or the wrong decision, but I don't think it was an egregiously bad decision.

    We lost that final in 2024 to Toulouse by some pretty slim margins, got absolutely nothing on the day from Matthew Carley, and it still took an all time great performance from one of the greatest players to ever play the game in Antoine Dupont.

    We hear all the time from coaches that they see it as a 23 man game, and that they believe fans read too much into who starts games, and I think that's what you're doing here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,699 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Exactly this. Another day, a better ref, Dupont is yellowed for not releasing after Sheehan's break, Frawley nails his dg, Lowe doesn't get a YC for a pretty meh knock on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,376 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Noel McNamara has extended his contract with Bordeaux until 2029. Fair play to him. Developed a lot as a coach since leaving his role at the Leinster Academy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Fair enough. I dont get those selections. I was a big fan of Conners but that 2024 version of Conners was not him at his peak. That was 3 years earlier in 2021 when he won the last of his Test caps.

    Ruck and Maul were 2 of the main reasons Leinster didnt gain ascendancy from the start in that game. (& Dupont!). Those are the calling cards of Ryans and vdF.

    I could go on and on about the mistakes made by Leo in that final.

    Even Frawley been selected as the back-up 10. JC

    Just like this season; Frawley was playing FB pretty much all of that season. 6-2 bench.

    He has to come on for the last 30mins at 10 v Toulouse!

    HB? Nah! Why would Leo pick that version of Harry?

    He had only been playing for Ireland in the 6N, on the bench for the Last 16, QF, SF and had started 9 games at 10 that season.

    Yet another selection mistake made by Leo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭typhoony


    You could argue that Prendergast coming on at full-back or wing is worse than frawley coming on at 10



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    The DG is the big one here I think. Literally a matter of inches. And we know he has it in his locker because of what he did in South Africa a few weeks later.

    So many games come down to one or two moments. The result doesn't always reflect that. But oftentimes it's just that.

    I do dislike the chokers (or whatever synonym is used) tag because I don't think it's a fair representation of Leinsters efforts over the years. It's fitting for the LAR final in the Aviva where we had such a big lead I will admit.

    But we did not choke against Toulouse in that final. I think we played excellently. But we also got front row seats to one of the greatest individual performances from one of the greatest modern players in Dupont. And the rest of the team played pretty well that day too!

    Then I think back to the '22 final. We get pinged for not rolling away on the cleanest steal you're ever likely to see. Should have been the chance to clear our lines at 72 minutes. Instead LAR get the pen and spend the next 8 minutes in our 22. Genuinely think if that went the other way it's a different result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,699 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I always think of LaR's winning try in the 2nd final. Al'alatoa gets smashed in the head in a ruck as they score, the exact thing he gets a card for shortly afterwards. If he makes a bigger deal of that, it's a penalty to us. That and JGP not looking to his left on their line, where a pass puts Lowe or Baird in a spot to power over.

    Post edited by AbusesToilets on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70 ✭✭shinana abu


    Wayne Barnes😒😒😒



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,376 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Leinster have received just 2,000 for sale to season ticket holders for the Champions Cup Final. Go on sale tomorrow and 8 can be bought per person.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,905 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    On that note, again, once I figure out how to transfer tickets, I've four tickets to both games available to someone I would prefer to be a genuine fan if anyone desires it.

    Would prefer to stick to my usual t&cs but proving difficult alas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭50HX


    Yeah i agree..its was Leinsters call to bench Barrett.

    It doesn't add up to sign NIQ's & then stipulate you can't start 2 of them for example.

    Whats the point of signing them otherwise.

    On a separate note its mad to think Ioane will be heading back with at least a runners up medal in his arse pocket, who would have thought 2 years ago if ye were given the pick of Jordie or Ioane which one would be a better bet to get to a/win a final



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Jordie went back to the hurricanes with a league winners medal, the only club medal he's ever won.

    Reiko already has a league winners medal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,755 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I dunno at this stage. SP is a very known quantity to everyone who plays against him. He was skinned a few times in mid field in the 6 nations, and obviously things get worse the further out he goes. He has some very strong attacking components to his game but realistically JGP is a much more important attack vector no matter whois playing ten for Leinster. SP's deficiencies in defence are just too easy to exploit. It cost him his place for Ireland. Even here people are pointing to good tackles he's made over the last two years as evidence of his viability. Not good defensive performances, good tackles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    Having thought about a potential team for this weekend, there is probably 0 chance all the front liners play both of these URC games. Many played against Benetton, Toulon and then potentially 4 weeks in a row from Champions cup final to a URC final, if they get there. So they are looking at 8 weeks in a row. With that in mind, and how the second string went in Belfast, I’d give whoever played last weekend this week off, and go full string next week vs Ospreys to build some cohesion for the final.

    I reckon we see something similar to the Ulster lineup. Obviously pie in the sky trying to predict with what’s on the horizon but I predict we could see something like:

    1. Cahir 2. Kelleher 3. Slim/Furlong 4. Deeny 5. Soroka 6. Deegan 7. Penny 8. Culhane 9. McGrath 10. Prendergast 11. JOB/Lowe 12. Tector 13. Reiko 14. JJ Kenny 15. JOB/Frawley

    16. G McCarthy 17. E Byrne 18. Slim/Furlong 19 O’Tighearnaigh 20. Connors 21. Gunne 22. JOB/Frawley 23. JOB/Lowe



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I thought he was fine defensively against Australia, against Ulster recently.

    Can you point out one good performance at 10 from Frawley?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,087 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    SP's deficiencies in defence are just too easy to exploit. It cost him his place for Ireland.

    I don't think it did TBH, we all knew about his liability in defence, it was the collapse of the other parts of his game that did for him in the 6N. His performance against Italy was shocking and defence was the least of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,070 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Ah no. With a glaring weakness like defence, he needs to be on top by a margin in the other metrics. His defence is always a drag on how selectable he is. If his form dips in other areas, then he's overall not a very good player because defence is always dragging down his average.

    Post edited by El_Duderino 09 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,470 ✭✭✭crisco10


    anybody else look for final tickets this morning in the STH sale?

    Seemed to be all gone within 5 minutes. I got what I needed, but weirdly the tickets i was issued werent in the section I chose from the Seat Picker screen. I don't really mind, happy to have tickets sorted, but strange.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭darkened_scrum


    I read that there were 2k tickets and you were allowed buy 8 per person?

    So theoretically it could have ended up with only 250 STHs being able to buy tickets? Seems a bit odd.



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