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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ireland can be fully renewable and even a net exporter of electricity

    wind + solar + offshore + batteries + interconnectors + demand flexibility + strategic gas/biomethane reserve.

    The investment would be about than 200 billion over 20 years.

    But it would be offset by a reduction in fossil fuel imports of about 200 billion and the sale of electricity exports and industrial production unlocked by abundant low marginal cost energy

    Nuclear would take longer cost more and be less reliable

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    200 billion !

    does anyone want to claim again on this thread that “nuclear is expensive”

    28bn is a much smaller number that 200 last I checked



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That is not a plan. It is nothing more than guesswork without a single financial figure for any of the components you listed.

    Eamon Ryan also stabbed guess at how much this plan would cost just two years ago. Again without any specifics and quoted €100 Billion. Half the figure you are also now stabbing a guess at.

    Is it any wonder that people now see this failed plan as a white they were sold by the greens based on nothing other than an ideology ?

    The rest of your post is the same ideological "make believe".

    Under the current plan we would not generate enough electricity for our own needs let alone export electricity. We would be burning more gas by 2050 than we are now, still paying for all our electricity at the price of gas due to the marginal pricing policy and at least twice the strike price we are now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Total nonsense on multiple levels. Lets take one aspect, electricity demand in this country is currently around ≈30–35 TWh/year

    You want to switch everything to electricity as you claim demand will be at least 130TWh/year assuming that is even financially and materially viable within 20 years.

    To do this you need stable baseload power and nuclear is the only game in town. A large nuclear plant (EPR / AP1000 class) has a capacity ~1.1–1.6GW with capacity factor: ~90%. Contrary to your claim nuclear generation is very reliable.

    Let's say ~10 TWh per nuclear plant per year. At minimum we'd be looking at needing 4 nuclear reactors to provide baseload and probably more.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭323


    Spot on. Been saying same for years. Bit of West Coast common sense there.

    Sure didn't Darragh O’Brien/Government of Ireland downgraded their fantasy 37GW of offshore wind to 3 to 8 GW last year, now talking about 5GW, citing bullshit reasons like "protected habitats, grid limits and hazards such as shipwrecks, arms dumps and undersea cables).

    https://extra.ie/2025/12/06/news/irish-news/offshore-wind-hopes-fall-flat

    Protected habitats: Many OWF export cables have been laid & trenched, with no environmental impact in much more highly protected marine habitats in Europe.
    Grid limits: Aye, true enough, we have a 1960's grid.
    Hazards such as shipwrecks: Normal, we go round them.
    Arms dumps: Normal, UXO's, find them, identify and clear them, i.e. recover them or blow them up, I prefer the latter.
    Undersea cables: Normal, talk to the owners, agree protection, lay over them, standard practice since before there was an electricity grid. Anyway, only a hand full of existing cables on the west or south coast, many more in the Irish sea where they're actually proposing putting the their 5GW.

    2030 targets went out the window long ago, because not a single one of the proposed 79 OWF's around Ireland has been approved for construction. 78 now after the Sceirde Rocks (IE05) debacle. Building a fixed bottom OWF using Gravity Based Foundations on an exposed reef!! FFS, heads should have rolled for that F up. So, we'll blame the objectors.

    Not be surprised if this death march "Tonn Nua" project goes the same way as Sceirde Rocks when someone runs the real numbers. Negligible experience in building at sea, 15% deeper than the industry accepted barrier depth for fixed bottom foundations, in marine conditions not attempted anywhere, some of the harshest in the world! Sure what could go wrong!

    image.png

    Pic: Gareth Chaney/Collins Photos

    Think in reality O'Brien's advisors woke up and seen the light. Ohh fook!!! All these OWF's that we told all the data centre developers will power their plants, was just a fantasy! Maybe if they'd done a basic desk-top study 10 years ago, they'd have realised, not remotely technically feasible.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I find Tonn Nua a strange one.

    It`s a joint venture between the E.S.B and Orsted. Orsted pulled out of the Hornsea 4 offshore wind project in May 2025 citing "a deterioration in value creation" as the primary reason, on a CFD that was the same as they have now been granted a strike price for Tonn Nua.

    Cario generation lost their €35 million bond for pulling out of Sceirde Rocks and the bond for Tonn Nua is €80 million, so it really is a strange one. Then again, it is a oint venture with the ESB, a state owned body so if it goes tits up, I cannot see the state sticking the ESB for their €40 million share of the bond as they would just have to capitalise the ESB with another €40 million if they did. It would be sauce for the goose and sauce for the gander in that they could not look to hold on to Orsted`s €40 million bond.

    Call me cynical, but I would see that as the major reason Orsted got involved in Tonn Nua.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The 200 billion includes the upgrades to the grid and transmission infrastructure and electrifying everything that currently burns fossil fuels that would also need to be done for nuclear.

    Your 28billion figure is also ludicrously small for 4 hinkley c sized reactors which os what we'd need to cover Irelands energy demand including heating and transport

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    At least 130twh a year is wrong. You forgot that burning fossil fuels is an extremely inefficient way to generate energy. Electric heating and transport will use far fewer units of energy to do the same work.

    Your probably right that we would need 4 hinkley c sized reactors because as you say, they are only operating 90% of the time, and you can't afford to lose 15% of your entire grid every time one reactor needs to be refuelled or maintained

    Nuclear produces steady electric over 24 hours a day but our grid doesn't demand the same electricity 24 hours a day, do we'll still need storage and interconnectors and many of the same expensive grid upgrades we would need for renewables....

    And we'd also need to continue to have the same fossil fuel infrastructure for the decades it would take to get even the first plant running, while we can continue to increase renewable infrastructure and age out fossil fuels from today.

    Look. If Ireland announced a nuclear power program id back it as long as they didn't use it as an excuse to stop building renewable energy infrastructure. I won't hold my breath for the reasons that have already been explained on here over and over again

    Post edited by Akrasia on

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Extra funny as at time of this post 90% of our 9GW of renewables is doing nothing

    IMG_6876.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    By 2050, entire islands population will probably be ~8 million people (we have a unified grid), there must be industry growth to support this. Therefore more energy will be needed. In a recent article an RTE economist failed to recognise Jevons paradox when he wrote "households increase their energy use when the home becomes easier to heat." Jevons back in 1865 noted the paradox relates to increased fuel efficiency leading to increased consumption of fuel back when steam engines where the thing, (still are for reliable electricity generation, cooling towers that Green propaganda likes to portray as "carbon" is water vapour).

    With so much "cheap and available" electricity we will have to beat data center operators off with a stick to stop them coming here. Therefore even with efficiency gains, a fully electrified Ireland will likely need ~100 TWh per year by 2050—roughly triple today’s demand, account for industrial growth and demand for ~130TWh is not out of the question.

    Your ideas depends on extreme over-sizing to make 100% renewables work, you need:

    • Massive overbuild of wind (especially offshore)
    • Large storage (days -> weeks, not hours)
    • Heavy inter-connector reliance (UK & France/Spain)
    • Demand curtailment (industry shutting down on low-wind periods, today the fall back to their own diesel or gas generators)


    You’re not replacing fossil fuels. You’re replacing them with a combination of overbuild, storage and imports that still has failure modes during prolonged low-wind events. You are proposing huge capital expenditure (overbuild & storage), massive curtailment waste, increased system complexity and grid stress and even more dependence on imports when the neighbours also have low output. Pay attention to the neighbours they are currently enveloped in the same madness.

    Ignoring economics the real challenge isn’t generating that energy annually, it’s guaranteeing supply during peak winter demand and low-wind periods, crucially when . . .

    • Much of that demand is winter-peaking (heat).
    • Exactly when solar is weakest and wind can be unreliable for multi-day periods.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You keep posting this, I'll keep posting the image showing offshore wind is abundant

    1000023082.png

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,638 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    It can't be a net exporter if our prices remain higher than elsewhere. Given that we already import on days with high wind and solar, I wouldn't bank on it changing in the future.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ireland already exports energy via our interconnectors on windy days

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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    While open minded, on balance I am opposed to nuclear. Even if the safety issue could be resolved (and some argue fusion is safer), there is the question of where we would get the uranium from. France gets much of it from Russia, and recently restarted shipments of spent nuclear fuel to Russia (Greenpeace reported on it) for reprocessing by Rosatom. Other potential sources are unstable African countries like Mali, where I think France got 12% of its uranium imports from before the coup. We would be subject to new leverage from Putin which I dont want. It also raises questions about how "renewable" it is if it relies on uranium.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,638 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    No one claimed it to be renewable. It's low carbon emissions are the draw.

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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    "Renewable" no. But some argue that it is. I disagree.

    The EU created something called the EU Taxonomy, which is a system that labels certain economic activities as environmentally sustainable for investment purposes.

    In 2021–2022, the European Commission decided to include nuclear energy (and natural gas) in this taxonomy — but with conditions. Nuclear was not labelled as a “renewable energy source” It was classified as a “transitional / sustainable investment activity. The label mainly affects financial markets and green investment rules, not the scientific definition of renewables



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,638 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    I guess the smartgrid dashboard just got the signs wrong during Storm Dave then? Windiest day of the year to date and all 3 interconnectors weren't importing, but were actually exporting, despite huge volumes of curtailment suggesting otherwise.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,270 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    It seems that the Irish Govt's offshore wind strategy was launched in March 2024?

    https://enterprise.gov.ie/en/publications/powering-prosperity.html

    Two years have passed.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but no construction has started yet on any offshore wind farm?

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Firstly, one snapshot is not a comprlling argument.

    Besides All 3 of those interconnectors are to the UK which also had windy conditions at that moment so didn't need any extra energy. The interconnectors to france and spain will grant us access to the EU supergrid where the correlation is much lower, reducing curtailment

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its almost like the country isn't actually being run by 'greens' and the current government are paying lip service and failing to back the transition with urgent action.

    Ban billionaires



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    if you bought a car that randomly didn’t work more than half the time you wouldn’t call it “abundant”

    Aside new record!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,638 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Ah, so we can only export when it's windy here and nowhere else? Got it!

    Have you run a single model to suggest that Celtic will do anything other than import?

    Because any models that I've run suggest that the only times it won't be at full import are when it's on outage. Wind or no wind.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    High gas prices lead to high electricity prices. Yet you are blaming renewables.

    Your car analogy is dumb btw

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,074 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Is that why we are now the most expensive in Europe for electricity

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-now-the-most-expensive-country-in-the-eu-for-electricity/a1721751843.html


    while French pay half of us while emitting 30x less co2 this morning

    IMG_6878.jpeg

    let’s build more renewables which require even more gas backup!

    IMG_6879.jpeg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,638 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Great. It's 2026 now.

    You obviously didn't dig too deep in your hasty response, we were a net importer of just under 4TWh in 2023. Must've gotten the sign wrong again!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The reason we are most expensive is because our billing companies pay the highest rate they can to every wholesale supplier. So for example if gas costs 50c, wind cost 10c and hydro costs 5c they pay al of them the 50c gas rate, even if gas only supplies 1% of the grids electricity. This is the same reason that the "100% renewable" plans doubled in price back when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 causing a spike in gas prices. It was a major issue in 2022 and there was nothing done the last 4 years to fix it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Why do we have the highest electricity prices in Europe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭bored65


    Because we decided to blindly copy Germanys failed green policies

    A country that wasted a trillion euro on Energiewende over decades only to endup wholly reliant on France while emitting multiples of co2 and having now second highest electricity prices in Europe



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Ok, so I get being angry on the internet is fun, but thats not what I asked you.

    Explain how renewables have contributed to higher electricity prices over the last 5 years, and what would you have done to mitigate this



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