Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

I don't see the issue.

The actual initial comment was:

"Whatever playmaking advantage Crowley has is balanced against Bryne's superior kicking and passing imo". 

Is that any more full of insight and support than Leaky's comment? Or are they both just instances of someone (if I can put it so mildly)… posting their opinion on an internet message board?

My own opinion, we regularly see Crowley with some deft handling and quality passing right at the gainline, going back to when he first established himself in the Munster first time in the URC run-in. (I remember an article Gerry Thornyley referenced at the time talking about how he was passing "right under the Stormer's noses").

I also think both of their problems are mental 

I'd agree with this, but I also think Crowley has improved here and perhaps bounces back quicker from an error than Byrne does. Would also add I think Crowley is a superior running threat and defender.

So Harry has 3/4s of Crowley's try assists in under 50% of the minutes played? And 2/3s of his defenders beaten, once again in less than half the minutes played? And a better kicking percentage?

Not sure these stats are doing what you'd like them to do.

Harry plays for the current European finalists and the defending URC champions. Behind a pack that makes up 7/8s of the national teams pack. And with the service of JGP.

Jack plays behind a pack that is regularly bested and the 2nd choice SH at a national level.

There is some important context there.

The best no 10, by far, is Sam Prendergast's potential. Nobody holds a candle to SP's potential, not even Sam Prendergast.

I'm only half joking about that. I think the other players are being compared to how good people think SP could be if he sorted out his aversion to contact and his goal kicking.

Crowley isn't world class, but he's the best actual option we have. Harry has had some very good performances, but yesterday wasn't good for him.

I'd love if Frawley has a good run at Connacht and puts himself in contention.

I agree, none of them are world class. Crowley is good enough for international level. Prendergast would be too if he could sort out his defense. Byrne I'm not so sure.

pretty obvious that Crowley is the standout outhalf in Irish rugby.

Prendergast is a few levels below him and has been a massive liability in defence and Byrne is also flakey.

Crowley may not be world class, (nether was ROG, despite what the Irish media told people) but there is daylight between him
and the rest ATM.

Sure, he had a couple of seasons where he was imperious, but ROG always had holes in his game. He was surrounded by a fantastic team in Munster and Ireland and played the kind of game that worked phenomenally well with that group. Coaches knew exactly what they had in him and planned accordingly. He was also a very intelligent player and made the most of whatever opportunities there were on the field, also an excellent leader. He was a 3 times Lions tourist who won only 2 caps, both off the bench iirc. That's a fair indication of how he staked up against his peers.

absolute revisionist history going on here im sorry

saying michalak was a better 10 is a bit of a joke. im not as big a fan of JW as others are so he wouldnt be as far ahead of ROG in my opinion but i will conceded he was better in general when fit (which is a big proviso in JW's case). he and stephen jones were on par overall, with SJ benefitting on lions tours in having the standout 9s being welsh (and 12 in 2009). i think the fact that ROG barely played test rugby for the lions is a bit bizarre but sometimes the timing doesnt work out

sexton obviously kicked on to becoming world class later in his career but he was up and down before ROG retired so i would have had them equal enough while they were both playing. Farrell similar in that he went onto becoming a fantastic player but that was after ROG retired

carter is carter and he was clearly the best 10 in the world (and ever imo), but there was a period where ROG was second to him. I was a fan of mehrtens so id have him up there with ROG (maybe even ahead of him at his best). spencer was a good player but was never anywhere near world class. BB is a much better rugby player than ROG (and most of the other 10s mentioned here) but thats as a 'player' rather than a 10 - hes gotten much better at the nuts and bolts of a 10 recently though

quade cooper - not even going to dignify that with a response to be honest, a poor mans carlos spencer

larkham was probably better that ROG for most of his career, his bad luck with injuries and slight dip in form coincided with when ROG was at his best

the argentinians - some great players but the only one that would compare to ROG was contepomi and ROG was better overall. quesada was good but nothing amazing, JM Hernandez had a great rwc in 2007 at 10 but barely played there after that and was better suited elsewhere, todeschini had a few good games but wouldnt be in the conversation

SA had poor 10s for alot of ROG's career, much as i liked morne steyn and butch james was a solid player - wouldnt say either were world class though

diego dominguez was up there with the best during his career but his didnt have that much overlap with ROG's