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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Wasn't the "direct" curve at Limerick Junction in the past 100 years as well?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Spares for 141 and 142, as mentioned. Both of those locos are operational, and 141 has recently had its body work repaired, and has been resprayed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 Skyte


    Indra Group getting a dim view from Irish Rail. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2026/04/22/irish-rail-board-voices-concerns-over-36m-it-project/

    Indra Group is also the company chosen to implement the NTA's contactless payments solution.

    The board of Irish Rail has expressed strong concerns at indications that the full delivery of a new information technology (IT) system to regulate train movements countrywide – on which €31.5 million has already been spent – could be in doubt.

    Directors were told in early February that it would be January 2027 at the earliest and possibly summer next year before the first part of the train management system – covering the line to Rosslare, known as commissioning phase one (CP1) – would be in place.

    Official minutes show that the then Irish Rail chairman, Steve Murphy, and project director Jason Lacey told the board they had concerns about the ability of IT contractor, Indra Group, to deliver the remaining seven phases of the project.

    However, the development of software for the train management system has been beset by delays.

    Official minutes show Lacey told the board he was not “overly confident” the January 2027 commissioning date would be achieved.

    “It was noted that there is a risk that CP1 may not be completed until summer 2027. And the programme for completion of the remaining CP2 – CP8 phases is unlikely to be updated until CP1 has been achieved.”

    The minutes state that it was originally envisaged the management system would be substantially deployed by the end of 2024.

    The board was told that the first phase “represents a very small percentage of the train management system scope of work”.

    The board minutes show that Lacey warned he had significant concerns about Indra’s ability to deliver the later phases of the overall project, known as CP 2-8, based on what he had seen to date.

    The minutes maintain Irish Rail directors “noted that this is a very concerning development”.

    The minutes state then board chairman, Murphy, “advised that he had expressed his concerns about Indra’s ability to complete the train management system” and offered Indra the opportunity to work with one of the rail company’s signalling suppliers.

    Board directors sought management to update the NTA on Irish Rail’s assessment of Indra’s ability to deliver the full prospect.

    Irish Rail said it continued to work with Indra to progress CP1 and the matter was being kept under review in close liaison with the NTA as approving authority.

    The NTA told the Dáil Committee of Public Accounts that software for the CP1 phase was due to be handed over to Irish Rail in April for testing, which could take three months.

    It said it could take another six months for the system to go through safety processes, including with the Commission for Railway Regulation.

    The NTA suggested the development of the later phases could take two years.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 15,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The Minister finally showed up for some Oral Questions in the Dail today

    Here's an update on DART+ West and DART+ South West

    As part of the wider DART+ programme, DART+ South West will provide an extension of electrified DART services from the city centre to Hazelhatch and Celbridge. I know this is a project the Deputy has supported from its genesis and he continues to do so. A major milestone was cleared in November 2024 when the project secured full planning approval from An Coimisiún Pleanála. Preparation for procurement for DART+ West and DART+ South West is progressing together. I want to be clear about that. Design and build pre-qualification questionnaires were issued in May 2025. Funding allocated under the national development plan sectoral investment plan, which was published last November, will see construction of the DART+ programme begin. I expect DART+ West will enter construction before the end of 2027. DART+ West is a critical enabler for the wider programme and must be advanced first, as it will provide an additional depot location and capacity for new fleet as well as the requirement enhancements to city centre rail capacity to support future services. I will return to this.

    Funding from the sectoral investment plan has also allowed compulsory purchase orders for DART+ South West to commence in February this year. Procurement for DART+ West is progressing in a way that ultimately assists with DART+ South West, in that it is intended the framework contracts being established for DART+ West will also be used for DART+ South West. I want to see this being done in tandem. In addition to sectoral Exchequer capital allocations, which the Deputy has been pushing for and on which we met on a number of occasions, my Department will continue to explore opportunities to advance this and bring it forward. DART+ West is an enabler for DART+ South West.

    Within our sectoral ceilings we do have some flex and I believe we can bring this project forward. We need to get the compulsory purchase order, CPO, work done and we need to get DART+ West started in 2027. I believe that with continued work on this we could see DART+ South West starting in 2028. Both of them interact with each other, as the Deputy knows, and I will be working with the Deputy to ensure that we do.

    We will see construction start in 2027 on DART+ West. Shortly after that, with movement in our sectoral ceiling that I think we can do, we can get DART+ South West into construction in 2028.

    Looks like that raid of the DART+ kitty to fuel a bonanza of rural road schemes may not be happening after all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,149 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    All the Kerry ones will have been binned anyway in the last two weeks!

    The bigger issue is Canney's vanity WRC2 getting funding out of order



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 213 ✭✭VeryOwl


    Thank you for posting the update. Full exchange here for anyone interested:

    Public Transport – Thursday, 30 Apr 2026 – Parliamentary Questions (34th Dáil) – Houses of the Oireachtas

    Their feet need to continue to be held to the fire.

    Shane Moynihan, to his credit, is well-informed about the project.

    O'Brien talks as if he's a passenger (no pun intended) and the funding for the project magically de-allocated itself. But if we get the right outcome in the end and both start construction in 2027/2028 which he is now on the record as saying can be done, we'll be a massive step forward to a proper DART network.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 258 ✭✭BestWestern


    If we look back ten years from now, how much of the dart+ scheme will be actually completed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 121 ✭✭PH0NER


    I thought D+W was supposed to begin construction in 2026, but now they’re talking about not starting physical works until potentially the end of 2027?

    Why can’t they start upgrading the electricity and stringing the overhead lines up immediately?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    No, per the National Development Plan, procurement this year and project commencement next year.

    The project is vastly more complicated then just stringing up wires!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 412 ✭✭Qaanaaq


    Do we have any latest info on the BMUs on the Drogheda line. It was delayed ti Q1 2027 however I read something yesterday where an IR employee said late 2027?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    CACR is going at a good pace, which is something that should hopefully light a rocket under DART+... if Cork ends up being electrified before any of the DART+ lines go live, then Cork will claim the title of having the longest electrified railway in Ireland.

    ... and then, they will never shut up about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,592 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    There are in house enabling works going on now though. It'll be late 2026 or 2027 by the time contractors are appointed. Stringing up wires is an extreme over simplification of what's involved. The bases for the masts have to be poured first. And much of the city centre sections require track lowers first before you can pour anything and then theres bridge re-builds and then theres building new electricity substations, complex work coordinating multiple different engineering disciplines and contractors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭specialbyte


    I had to look this up as it surprised me. The DART is 53km of electrified track. Mallow to Midleton is also about 53km. The Cobh spur is about another 9km. Dublin 53km. Cork 62km. Electrified Cork rail plans do beat current Dublin electrification on distance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    There certainly has been a theme of late, that the GOVERNMENT TDs and Ministers think they are not the people calling the shots. Quite bizarre! Grace Boland Fingal West of FG goes on as if she is not in government!!

    Just fund it and get on with it folks, the longer you leave it, the more expensive it becomes and the longer we are clogged up!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    3 lines to be electrified in Dublin already have enforceable RO’s and have started CPO

    Cork is at least 2-3 years behind assuming RO application doesn’t go to public hearing and isn’t challenged in court, best estimate is late 2031 for operation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,592 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    The DART network will be over 100kms long before CACR is operational. Still very scarce but an improvement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 339 ✭✭OisinCooke


    Just as a little aside, I’ve noticed recently that they’ve replaced the horribly overcomplicated and crammed map of Dublin on the DARTs with a simple tube-style line diagram above the doors.

    I think it’s a far far better, and clearer replacement, I never liked the old map, it was always far too hard to read, and just generally looked quite poor. They just squashed their existing design to fit into the small panel above the doors.

    The new one is much better, very clear, shows transfers and interchange station easily, but only what you need to know on the actual train.

    It does beg the question though, how the maps will work post D+… Will there be specific units allocated to specific routes, and therefore individual route maps for each unit? I feel like this would be quite problematic with unit rostering….

    Or maybe moreso like the S stock trains on the Underground, where trains that operate the Circle, Hammersmith and City, and District lines have the 3 different line diagrams of each route in each carriage, so that all units can operate any route.

    I really like the new maps showing just the like diagram in a non-geographical way. I think if they ever did go back to a full map in the carriage, they need to redesign a map for it from scratch, rather than shoehorning whatever TFI map they have at the time into the tiny space. Any thoughts?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The drone video of the mock up showed a full DART+ map, however I think that might have just been CGI’d into the video, so I’m not sure if it will be reality if what we get:

    IMG_0215.jpeg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,720 ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Where did you see this? Irish Rail were saying Q2 2027 in March.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76,149 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It is almost definite that backbench TDs of both parties have been told it's OK to attack ministries run by the other party. My local FFer acts as if he's not in Government on health stuff constantly - FG Minister - but not transport etc where they're FF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    That previous map was the worst transit map I've seen anywhere, and Irish Rail have had some pretty bad ones in the past.

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Thunder87


    Signage in general on the network has always been awful, I've noticed the improved maps as well but even now they're still only above the doors so if you're anywhere else in the carriage then good luck. Similarly at most stations there's still only a handful of little blue signs stuck onto lampposts to inform which station you're at.

    It's basic stuff that's been solved for probably the best part of a century in other countries and really feeds into the feckless "sure it'll be grand" mentality, hopefully with the network expansion there'll be a serious kick up the arse to start getting this stuff right



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,301 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    In Berlin they put large full size network maps on the ceilings. Sure you have to crane your neck up to look at them but they are easy to actually read. The U-Bahn also has the reduced line maps above the windows that cover the 2 or 3 lines each stock type may cover.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭EarWig




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    “There is no conflict in specification or size on any of the lines the new fleet will operate on, and the new Darts have been tested across numerous lines over the past 18 months with no such issue arising.”

    She's not reading all the reports so. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭tnegun


    I was chatting to a driver yesterday, and he said they were planning on mixed traffic testing (I think that's what he called it) shortly, where the new units will be tested operating out of service in slots between regular scheduled services.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    how many have been delivered so far? In the original plan they were to be in service by now.

    Put your money where yer mouth is... Subscribe and Save Boards!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,726 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    The correct PR answer is the train has visited Greystones for testing without issue. It’s been to Bray, Maynooth, Dundalk, Howth and Hazelhatch

    But it hasn’t been the Greystones…



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