How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

Re: Post 211

Yeah - too busy with their everyday lives to be too bothered - like the 94,000,000 americans who were too busy to vote in 2024. Look where that has landed their country and the world.

I think that if there had been a hard border after Brexit, we'd probably have a UI by now.

Suits everyone now bar belligerent Unionists and bitter partitionists.

The EU, Irl, GB would all benefit from a UI for a variety of reasons that will continue to emerge. Those same belligerents know since the GFA where we are headed, hence their rallies and war cries.

The 'case' needs to be made on options and requires a vote before anyone can make pronouncements.

I have heard similar predictions for the last 40 years, none of them have come to pass. I very much doubt this one will either.

These aren't predictions, they are census returns.

Since 2011 there has been a national identity question on the NI census.

In 2011 there were ~39% British only and ~24% Irish Only, a gap of 15%

By 2021 that gap was down to 3%.

It's only going in one direction and a border poll will happen in the years after the 2031 or 2041 census.

But no earlier.

The key difference I see is that middle class protestants are no longer identifying as British or with the British state.

This is the reason for Bryson's/Allister and the DUP's pathetic culture wars - The partitioned parts being pushed inexhorably closer together and a decline in Unionism as a political home.

Same as people from Sicily see themselves as Sicilian if they go to mainland Italy, to distinguish themselves from those who live in Rome. Milan etc. If they go further afield eg America they are all "Italians".

When people from what was known as the British isles went to India for example 130 years ago, it made no difference to the natives there if the engineer or whoever was from Kingstown ( Dun Laoighaire ) or Liverpool.

Talking about "unification", its anazing to think that some people want to "unify" this island as an independent unit but yet want to split some existing political entities ( eg by seperating Scotland and England in to independent countries, or Catelonia and the rest of Spain etc ).

Think how the Canaries could flourish if they were independent of Spain. After all they are closer to Africa than Spain. 😀

"A UI is still to be formally planned and offered" lol lol.

You better start planning soon, because even your party SF has not a clue / has no planning done as regard what would happen to

pensions ( always paid out of current year tax receipts in this jurisdiction as well as the UK),

healthcare ( would northerners lose the NHS and have to pay towards doctor visits, VHI etc ),

splitting up of UK national debt as would be only fair if the UK split up,

loss of public sector jobs in N.I.,

loss of access / free trade to UK market,

….never mind contentious issues like anthem, flag, policity, irish language, response to tit for tat violence again in N.I. etc

Would public sector workers in Newry expect to be paid the same as public sector workers in Dundalk, and how much extra would that cost? And unemployment and pension rates? A minefield.

"Formally planned" lol.

Would make the formal planning for Brexit look like a walk in the park. That is the problem for nationalism. No planning for a U.I. done yet and never will be.

My point exactly. The calls for a so called "White Paper" on Irish Unity have been primarily driven by Sinn Féin, the party you support. You demand a formal Irish government publication outlining the framework, economic planning, but you have never got it. Neither could you. Even S.F. yourselves have not come up with satisfactory answers to resolve even some of the many issues. eg

"pensions ( always paid out of current year tax receipts in this jurisdiction as well as the UK),

healthcare ( would northerners lose the NHS and have to pay towards doctor visits, VHI etc ),

splitting up of UK national debt as would be only fair if the UK split up,

loss of public sector jobs in N.I.,

loss of access / free trade to UK market,

….never mind contentious issues like anthem, flag, politics, Irish language, response to tit for tat violence again in N.I., security, NATO etc

Would public sector workers in Newry expect to be paid the same as public sector workers in Dundalk, and how much extra would that cost? And unemployment and pension rates? A minefield"

So, as I said, no planning for a U.I. done yet and never will be. Certainly not in the next generation or two. Planning for a U.I. would be 100 times more complex than planning for Brexit and see how that turned out.

We will not be proposing constitutional change without a 'formal' plan which typically comes in a White Paper from government. THE GFA binds the governments to holding concurrent referendums on constitutional change.

If you believe we here will do that without a formal plan, that's your issue.

The decision to hold referendums is only binding 

if the SoS calls a referendum.

That is what I said. The decision to hold referendums is only binding if 

it looks like the majority of the people in Northern Ireland would vote for a united Ireland. Then of course the SoS would call a referendum.

No one is going to call one lightly, given the disaster Brexit was and how N.I. could turn out 100 times worse. Certainly would be a lot more complicated and divisive.

I see you have changed your position.

You insulted another poster by claiming that them not knowing that the sitting government WILL present a White Paper anywhere there is a binding international agreement was pretty poor.

I was one of those who you claimed had pretty poor knowledge, because it was news to me about a sitting government presenting White Papers about binding international agreements, but I am always open to the possibility that I am in error. So, armed with your clear statement, I went looking for the White Paper on the EU Migration Pact (a binding international agreement in case you don't know what that is). I have since looked for the White Paper on the Mercosur agreement, and can't find that either (just in case the EU Migration Pact was a one-off).

You have now switched to claiming that constitutional change requires a White Paper (though only typically, not always). At the very least, that requires a public apology to the original poster you insulted as clearly, your own knowledge wasn't up to standard. Furthermore, I have since had a look. Strangely, I couldn't find any White Papers on the last two referenda, maybe that is why they were lost. Neither could I find a White Paper on the previous successful referendum on divorce, though I did find one on the unsuccessful 1995 one. Maybe I am really poor with google searches, or maybe White Papers aren't typically published for constitutional change.

So I went and had a look at recent White Papers.

I found the White Paper on Enterprise 2022-2030

https://enterprise.gov.ie/en/publications/white-paper-on-enterprise-2022-2030.html

Then there is the White Paper on Defence, dating from 2015

https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of-defence/policy-information/white-paper-on-defence/

Then there is the White Paper on Ending Direct Provision

https://emn.ie/white-paper-to-end-direct-provision-and-establish-a-new-international-protection-support-service-published/

Now it seems that White Papers do not seem to be linked to either international agreements or typcially constitutional change, unless again, I am missing something. Twice, you have made grandiose claims about White Papers, twice those claims do not appear to be backed up with any evidence.

I am always concerned about posters being chased out of discussion forums by people insulting them or claiming that their knowledge is pretty poor, which is why I looked up the evidence for myself.