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How many of us think that unification is no longer a priority and don't really want unification ?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    Well my partner has worked in both systems and as I posted previously their take is that the NHS is getting hammered by the aging demographics but is reluctant to change its model, whereas our model is evolving to meet the same trends with the likes of Primary Care centres which save an awful lot of unnecessary hospital trips.

    We still have contract problems, see Limerick!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,550 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    If you believe that N. Ireland being taken over by, or becoming part of the Republic would bring harmony when many thousands died trying to defend themselves over the centuries, and have vowed No surrender, that is your own self delusions at play. Carry on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,064 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Agree. But would add that the NHS also appears to be under attack from vested political and corporate interests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭littlefeet


    NHS s bit of a side show, in fact anything where you have to persuade people it's a loosing cause, the only argument that's counts is vote for or against because the voter thinks it the right thing to do.

    A bunch of enternerley online posters rehashing the same arguments has very little to no influence on anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    I think it's fair to highlight vested interests, but there's also the culture of reverence for the NHS that can entrench resistance to necessary adaptation and change. The whole Brexit bus thing about giving money to the NHS rather than Europe is a classic example in the simplistic thinking around it.

    It can be very hard to discuss NHS failings without being accused of wanting to dismantle it, whereas we seem to start from the position of the HSE is failing, but upwards.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,064 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Well Darzi reckoned a 37billion shortfall over 15-20 years in funding was a part of the reason for it's crisis. That would amount to irreverence in my book and getting it ready for corporate acquisition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,095 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    That doesn't matter. It will take what it takes.

    However, the reality for some of these bloviating Unionist fools, such as Jim Allister, is that when they go out to rouse the rabble, he will look behind him and find the turnout is scant.

    The reality is, that the numbers of PUL extremist larpers are tiny, and that those under the age of 40, ie too young to even remember the Troubles, aren't going to turn themselves into a physical force resistance movement in a month of Sundays.

    The Irish and British governments will engineer the unification of Ireland under the Republic between them, and there won't be anything worse than some moaning on Twitter about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,064 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Allister is touting more rallies across NI. They'll be as embarrassing as the last ones. Allister knows it's coming and is powerless to rouse a declining Unionist ideology who have more or less accepted the inevitable that TUVers can see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭Grassy Knoll


    it’s a pity Sinn Fein in the South spend their time running down the place. this then gets picked up in NI as arguments why a UI shouldn’t happen.

    While HSE is far from perfect it is by the same token nowhere as bad as is presented. Housing is a major issue in the South but again a red, hot economy places all sorts,of,demands on supply, labour to build, cost of materials, land and so on. Cost are higher in the South but again people’s income is higher.

    Anyway these ironies exist and serve to point out the vacuity within political leaders stances on all sorts of issues.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    People get utterly blinded by the "free at the point of access" element of the NHS, but it is wildly questionable that NHS England is any better than the HSE. It certainly has far far worse Health Trusts, albeit while having some better ones as well and it will always have some better specialities simply due to scale. NHS NI however is falling apart completely.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,064 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    this then gets picked up in NI as arguments why a UI shouldn’t happen.

    I would consume a fair cross section of media from NI, when you hear the NHS myth getting busted on the Nolan show you know those 'arguments' are being challenged.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,896 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    😂 why is everyone banging on about the nhs, it’s a complete **** show



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,064 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If you want to discuss some other aspect, just make a point?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,095 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It is actually functionally bankrupt, the NHS.

    With the trajectory of the British economy, universal free healthcare is under huge threat. I suspect charges will start creeping in at the ground level before long, mainly to discourage abuse and overuse initially, but eventually to subvent the core health budget.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭George White


    It's telling that who is joining them to supposedly make them better- Stephen Donnelly. I think Donnelly is alovely man with a lovely voice, but as a minister of health, he was abominable, and a local TD, useless to the point of superfluousness.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    As to the thread title in question - a United Ireland has never been a priority in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,064 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    None of the two parties that power swapped between ever made it a priority despite lip service to it. There are reasons for that.

    It was a constitutional imperative at one stage and is now a constitutional aspiration. It will only ever become a priority if it is driven by a government.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There are reasons for that.

    Yes. It is not a priority of the population and never has been.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,863 ✭✭✭standardg60


    They pay it lip service precisely because no one really cares Francie, it's not a vote getter.

    SF really only pay it lip service too, and as rightly mentioned earlier they spend most of their time running the place down. They don't seem to be too invested in driving a UI on the other side of the border where they are actually in Government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,064 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Complete unknown whether it’s a vote getter because they have never tried.
    You would in any normal democracy expect governing parties to try and enact constitutional aspirations they saw to it were in the constitution



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,312 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    I see the North's IDA read my post 😀

    Businesses in NI can trade goods freely with both GB and EU, providing them with unique Dual Market Access and as a result, a competitive advantage. https://www.investni.com/support-for-business/dual-market-access



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,969 ✭✭✭Benedict XVI


    It depends on what you call wrong.

    I'm not sure SF will be promising lollipops and rainbows from Day 1 of unification so people will be expected to bare a certain amount of economic uncertainty.

    But if it drags on for years then I suppose you will see people getting their apology by not voting for them in elections.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    Well whatever worries about unification means having to endure their various religious headbangers there's still no shortage of them in the republic with the likes of Enoch Burke, stupidity without frontiers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,057 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I'd be very surprised if many here really cared about unification, and I mean really cared, not just saying they care to sound patriotic! We've lived so long as we are in the south and have had very normal and good lives, really! And up north there has been decades of lasting peace and much more harmony!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭yagan


    I agree with that sentiment.

    We voted away the constitutional claim to the six counties and London recognised the right of all people in NI to optional identify. It was and still is a pragmatic treaty for a shared space.

    I did feel however that those opposed to the Belfast Agreement were only interested in promoting Brexit just to wreak that accommodation, and if I feel a duty it is to protecting that shared space. I wouldn't consider concern for upholding the status quo as patriotism, but more pragmatism.

    There is still potential for the UK to attack the status quo again, but then again the English Nationalism that drove Brexit could see NI being ditched just as Brexit resulted in a customs border between NI and Britain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I suppose the people of North Island New Zealand respect the people of South island new Zealand;

    No we don't. They're all inbred hillbillies. Nice place to visit for skiing, fishing, hunting and wine tasting. They produce some good rugby players. But mostly inbred hillbillies 😆



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    You are correct. Repeated opinion polls have shown that the number who care about unification wobbles between 0% and 2%, as close to being statistically irrelevant as it is possible to be. Similarly, even though a huge majority want a united Ireland, a similar huge majority don't want to change the flag or the anthem or anything else. If a united Ireland means higher taxes, the majority evaporates quicker than water on the sun.

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2026/04/07/reconciliation-has-been-achieved-sinn-fein-can-transform-the-reunification-debate/

    This article makes for interesting reading. Two obstacles to convincing non-nationalists exist.

    "Firstly, while the vast majority of both Sinn Féin and SDLP politicians believe reunification would be a good thing, they are deeply divided on whether the Provisional IRA’s armed struggle was a just war. For non-nationalists, no such chasm exists: practically all such voters believe there was no justification for the IRA’s campaign of violence. This chasm plays out in local and Assembly elections where SDLP voters tend to transfer more to Alliance than to Sinn Féin."

    The onus is on Sinn Fein to address this. Renounce the actions of the PIRA, renounce the violence, stop celebrating the evil men who did evil deeds, and people may change their minds.

    "Secondly, the Irish government is opposed to a border poll in the short-term, believing it would fail given the opinion poll data. While northern nationalism is so fundamentally split on the legacy of separatist violence, it is hard to see Dublin getting involved in detailed planning for something it doesn’t think will succeed. A Sinn Féin-led government in the South is unlikely to achieve reunification while that party continues to justify armed struggle."

    This obstacle is unlikely to change. Sinn Fein are stagnant in the polls, North and South. The heights of 36% in the middle of the last election cycle may never be reached again. FF and FG have no interest in a poll, there are too many problems to sort out down South.

    However, the article misses something equally significant as a barrier - the emergence of the Northern Irish identity. It touches on it:

    "in 2021 29% identified as Irish only, with a further four percent identifying as Irish plus another identity (such as British or Northern Irish). As the Catholic share of the North has increased, Irish identity has decreased"

    That bit in bold tells an awful lot, it demonstrates that there is no demographic inevitability, that younger people think differently and the people need to be persuaded. Telling those people that bombings were good, and that there was no alternative to killing their family, friends and neighbours is not going to bring about unification.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 307 ✭✭Alfaguy


    Well as CJ often said the north is a failed political and economic entity. I used to love him for saying that publically and his wish for Irish unity even if he was only playing a political game made me forgive his many transgressions. I think every proper Irish person should want to see their country united and to finally get rid of the british occupiers for good. No ports or military bases Cyprus style either. BRITS OUT - end of. The details will work themselves out later.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,064 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bottom line really - partition has failed tragically. Have the Irish government the vision to lead us to our constitutional aspiration of a united island.

    Won't be FF or FG it appears.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,057 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes, but in 2026 and recently I'd say most people don't view it as "the British occupiers." They see it as part of an island up north with people very very similar to those in the south. People today are far too busy with loads of other stuff to be at all concerned with uniting the island. I'd say plenty up north feel similar!!!!



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