Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Does every player have to be a top international?

Also, what is his "ceiling"? Just so we know if he does sign. I will adjust my hype-o-meter accordingly.

Also, the season isn't over yet.

You really think Crowley is a top player? Or just the best player in his position in Ireland?

That's reflective of the poor choice of 10s we have. He is bang average and the only other 6 nations side he'd start for is Wales.

If you look at Casey's performances and think 'top player' then you really are watching a different sport to me. The gap between him and JGP is vast, and not to mention he looks utter sh*te when he puts on an Ireland jersey. Again, bang average.

Neither of them have developed into the players they were expected to be when we watched them for the U20s.

I did engage...

What does 15... 10... years ago have to do with Casper Gabriel? Or Munster's ability to produce front rows, second rows or back rows have to do with him?

Look at the last 5 years like I said. Now look at the two other provinces he could relocate to if he wants to leave Leinster and stay in Ireland.

Do you think Munster's production is that much poorer compared to them? Do you think he is established test quality level? If so, I hope he signs!

Crowley was waaay better than "decent" in the 6 Nations. And it's not even close. He's essentially answered the 10 question for Ireland for the foreseeable. If he did that by only being "decent" then how poor must Prendergast have been? You can't have it both ways.

And while Crowley may not be a 10 to the standard of Russell or Jaliert, can you tell be a 10 that Leinster have developed in the last 10 years who is?

The reality is, I think this is very likely a kite-flying exercise, and fully expect Gabriel to stay put, but ultimately Munster are never as bad as they are often painted on here.

Yes, Europe has been a disaster, and we're having a broadly shambolic season (on and off the pitch) and yet we're still only 5 points behind Leinster in the table.

Because if someone rates Crowley as only "decent" in the 6 Nations, then it's relevant by way of comparison.

Genuine question, how would you rate Crowley's 6 Nations?

Genuinely no intention to take a cheap shot. I think we're agreed that Crowley was better than "decent", and I (perhaps clunkily) used Prendergast as a means to illustrate that, that was the only intention here, so apologies if it came across that way.

With regards Munster, Leinster, Casper Gabriel and developement of 10's, I stand by everything else in my post.

At least we've moved from "decent" to "good".

I'd go as far as saying he was very good overall. Excellent vs Scotland, Very good vs England, decent vs Wales with notably poor kicking, and very good vs Italy with that awful missed kick for touch at the end. For me, it still amounts to much better than just good.

It's obviously never just down to one player, but Ireland's tournament trajectory changed when Crowley and JGP came on vs Italy. (And a notable uptick in performances from some others, before anyone jumps on that).

And I don't know what point you're trying to make about Munster being only 5 points behind Leinster in the table.

The point I'm trying to make is the point I made. That Munster are never as bad as they are often painted on here by some.

And in a conversation about Gabriel's developement if he moved to Munster, Jack Crowley's development seems far more pertinent than Munsters ability to develop forwards over the last 10 years.

And like I said, Leinster haven't produced a 10 of the calibre of Russell or Jalibert in the last 10 years either.

He is not bang average and will prove so over the coming yrs in my opinion

Fair enough, Cleggy. I wouldn't go as far as rolling out the phrase "headloss" but I think you're in an absolute minority who think he was just "decent".

It goes further than that - they haven't won back to back games in 2025, and arguably haven't beaten anyone substantial since October.

The manner of a lot of the defeats is stark as well - hammerings from Bath, Ulster, Sharks and really Exeter (while the game was in the balance), and unconvincing wins over the likes of Dragons & Zebre.

Clayton McMillan talked about wanting to "raise the floor" back in September, and gave quotes like:

"It's about not necessarily judging ourselves on the days when we're at our best. It's about judging ourselves when we're at our worst."

It's very questionable if he's delivered on that at all this season so far.

Strong side named for Benneton. Over the course of last week's fixture and tomorrow's, most of our 23 for Toulon will have gotten some game time.

15. Ciarán Frawley (119)

14. Tommy O’Brien (58)

13. Rieko Ioane (11)

12. Jamie Osborne (70)

11. Jimmy O’Brien (115)

10. Harry Byrne (87)

9. Jamison Gibson-Park (167)

1. Ed Byrne (103)

2. Dan Sheehan (83)

3. Tadhg Furlong (163)

4. Conor O’Tighearnaigh (10)

5. Brian Deeny (51)

6. Jack Conan (174)

7. Josh van der Flier (169)

8. Caelan Doris (102) CAPTAIN

Replacements:

16. Gus McCarthy (27)

17. Jerry Cahir (12)

18. Thomas Clarkson (73)

19. Alex Soroka (26)

20. Scott Penny (102)

21. Fintan Gunne (30)

22. Sam Prendergast (46)

23. Charlie Tector (26)

Yeah, that's how the table works alright. Leinster started the season poorly, Munster have been slumping more recently.

Leinster haven't really clicked this season for the most part either, but I personally would feel there are probably more mitigants available for Leinster's poor performances than Munster's.

Yep, that is how the table works, and it illustrates that Munster, often, aren't as bad as they are occasionally portrayed on here, which is exactly my point.

I suggest we leave it at that.