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Cork - BusConnects

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    That’s a different issue, @LXFlyer is right that legislation is being drafted at the moment, but this is legislation that obviously should have been drafted and enacted years ago. Who knows when it will be done.


    The promise to start one of the eleven corridors in 2030 is, of course, made dependent on “planning”. So probably middle of the next government’s term before anything actually starts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41832182.html

    De Paper is reporting that the Bishopstown corridor of BusConnects has been dropped in its entirety since the publication of the new Luas route (last Friday!). The corridor has indeed vanished from the map on the BusConnects website (but is still mentioned in the section below) - https://busconnects.ie/cities/cork/cork-sustainable-transport-corridors/

    This seems to be a big change late in the game. There are gaps now in the active travel infrastructure which were supposed to be part of the BusConnects upgrade but weren't included in the Luas maps that I could see (Bishopstown Avenue treatments, a cycleway on the Glasheen Road and modifications to the Mardyke, for example). Not inspiring, especially the line in the report that the BusConnects team had to wait for publication of the new route to have a clear idea of what the Luas team were actually planning.

    The planning submission deadline also seems to have shifted according to the website, and rather than being completed by Q4 2026 the submissions will only "begin in 2026".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭eastie17


    the ESB area is going to be sports pitches with a school beside it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭jimbob955


    Great actually, all these new builds, need a a school. There are as lot of areas for kids to play in already and for people to exercise around the Marina though. Would this kind of investment be better in different part of cork city maybe??

    As for the Bus Connects are we surprised by it being watered down each year to nothing?? NIMBY and certain councilors get what they want

    One thing i was thinking of was corridors and investment

    Western Suburbs - Ballincollig/Bishopstown gets the Luas

    Blackrock/Mahon gets the Luas

    North Side Cork City - Blackpool and BLARNEY and East Cork - gets train improvements

    Therefore, should bus connects focus and invest on areas outside these corridors

    1. Carrigaline
    2. Douglas
    3. Togher
    4. Airport to Kent
    5. Holyhill across to Blackpool perhaps
    6. Glanmire

    Some ideas in my head like a proper bus lane with high frequency from Airport to Kent

    Bus lanes connecting Carrig to Douglas over Carrs Hill

    Lee to Sea Greenway connecting Carrig to Douglas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    Bus Connects has been a total failure in my eyes. Loads of watered down plan, zero real world changes outside of a handful of new bus stops and a lot of painted ‘bus stops’ that will fade by the time the programme of works is finished



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be fair infrastructure works are only now starting in Dublin - 8 years after the first consultation. It's not going to be a rapid fix.

    Implementation of the new network is delayed for a number of reasons - funding being the main reason (there are no funds available for additional services anywhere in 2026, due to NTA overspends in recent years), lack of vehicles (see below), and recruitment and retention of staff remains challenging.

    The vehicle issue is twofold:

    1. Tivoli Depot needs to come onstream first, as Capwell is full to capacity there is nowhere to store more vehicles
    2. The cascade of hybrid buses to facilitate the new Cork network that are to come from Galway has been delayed due to planning issues with the electrification of Galway depot - that is now finally proceeding but won't be completed until towards the end of 2026.

    The new Cork network should start to be delivered in early 2027 once the buses start being transferred.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Great. Do you know what they are going to do with the building? And will the development include extending the greenway through it? (I really hope so).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    I agree that there are valid reasons why things have been delayed, but I'd still consider it a total failure. It has been years now and we've seen essentially nothing outside of some bus stops and the 31. I know Tivoli has started construction now, but I feel it has been long known that that (or something similar) would be needed. Fair enough about funding, but if the government are as serious as they say they are about making Cork the fastest growing city in the country, they should be flinging money at these problems. I understand somewhat the corridors being delayed, but zero movement on any route change outside of the 31 makes no sense to me

    But maybe I'm being too glass half empty



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    All of the network changes require additional buses and drivers which means additional money.

    As I said there is nowhere to store any extra buses yet, and there will be no additional buses available in Cork until the end of the year when Galway is finally electrified, and vehicles can be cascaded down. And simply put, there is no funding for new services anywhere in the country without DPER approval in 2026.

    The government have "thrown extra money in" - the problem is that the NTA in recent years have overspent their funding to the extent of requiring supplementary funding each Autumn.

    DPER is now reining them in to spend only what they have been allocated, which the NTA should have been doing in the first place. The funding increase to the NTA in budget 2026 covers the additional services across the country that the NTA implemented in 2025 that were outside the approved funding in that budget.

    One way or another, things will start to happen in 2027.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭eastie17


    I don’t know, demolish it I think. Yes the greenway will go all the way up past Navigation square from the marina.

    The whole plan is a very exciting development and I’m not sure why it hasn’t been advertised more. It’s also very real and in motion.

    There’s a website here but it doesn’t properly reflect the scale of development. Cork, that side at least will be one of the best places to live when this is finished

    https://corkdocklands.com/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 215 ✭✭The Mathematician


    I will be going to Cork in a couple of weeks and I just want to check that if I want to use a Leap card, I have to go to the driver and tell them my destination?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭thomil


    Yep, that’s correct.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Note if you want you could also try using the TFI Go app to buy a ticket, do to be honest it is a bit of a hassle for a one off ticket. But interesting to try out.

    But yes, otherwise go to the driver with your Leap card and ask for a ticket.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 942 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    A general stop is fine too, doesn't need to be the exact road/stop name. Even just saying town (city centre) or the neighbourhood name (Douglas, UCC, The Lough, etc) is fine



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Most people just ask for one ticket or a single ticket. I normally just say "one please".

    Most bus routes in Cork are in zone 1 only, so there is only one fare. Only if you were going all the way to Mallow, etc. would you be looking for a zone 2 ticket.

    It is part of why I'm annoyed that they didn't install the right hand validators and just do a flat fare for most routes like in London. It would have significantly speed up boarding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Very minor progress. The Dublin Transport Authority (Amendment) Bill 2026 was placed before the Dáil on Friday. This amends the law to allow the NTA to put through the planning for Cork BusConnects (and projects elsewhere in the state in future).

    It has to pass both houses of the Oireachtas but hopefully can go through quickly as it seems uncontroversial. (Famous last words…)


    If enacted quickly it could allow the NTA to keep to its latest target of all three schemes submitted to ACP by year’s end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Also - don’t know if there is a thread for this but the Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy (CMATS) is due for review this year. Does anyone know if this has started? Would be curious to see what it looks like given the major interim changes to the BusConnects plan (although, as essentially none of the CMATS projects have been built, it will be presumably be a copy-paste exercise).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭jimbob955


    Will they actually apply CMATs, great for a report or strategy but do they ever actually build it in real world?

    I was thinking during the week

    • Nort Side and East Cork = CARC and rail expansion
    • Western Suburbs and Blackrock/Mahon = Luas
    • Therefore should bus connects focus on other parts of the city e.g. Douglas, Carrigaline, Blarney, Airport, Togher etc. There is no hope of an extended railway line or Luas coming to these parts in the next 50+ years. So should Bus connects go here first and link up these areas with the Luas and new train stations. Like I didn't see the point of Bishopstown having both Luas and Bus connects!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 215 ✭✭The Mathematician


    I was amazed how much difference not having the right hand validators made. I was on a busy bus and it took an age to load.

    Cork badly needs more bus lanes as well. Even though there was not really that much traffic, we must have got stuck for about 15 minutes heading towards the station. It was the old story of maybe 30 or 40 people in cars holding up hundreds of people on buses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    In fairness, Cork Luas and the CACR improvements are both part of the current CMATS plan, and their implementation meets or exceeds what was recommended for 2040: for instance, CACR Phase two has two more stations than were recommended in the CMATS plans (Carrigtwohill West and Water-Rock).

    BusConnects Cork is the one area where the ambitions of the CMATS have fallen short, but it’s also where they’ve met the most resistance. But then, Cork has the most anti-bus population I’ve ever come across, still stuck in the mindset that you’d only use the bus if you were too poor to afford a car.

    Well, I can afford a car - I could even afford one that’s a lot more expensive than the one I do own. But: I still take the bus into town whenever I can. I do that because it’s quicker than trying to find a parking space, it gives me as long as I want in the city, and I avoid any chance of being robbed by Q-Park: it’s amazing that even after charging €4.50 an hour, they can’t afford a sign to tell people how much their parking will cost (that’s their Grand Parade park; their St Finbarr’s location at the edge of the city centre charges €4.20 per hour; for reference, the municipal car park at Paul Street charges just €2.70 per hour, which is the same price as two adult bus-tickets with a Leap card).

    If I were being cynical, I’d note that a business making so much by renting parking spaces at extortionate rates would have a lot of spare cash to spend lobbying against anything that reduces demand for parking…



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    You’re very generous Kris. Maybe it’s because I don’t live next to the rail line or on the likely Luas route, but I look at CMATS and see disappointment.

    Look at the delivery schedule (not planning, but delivery). It’s not just BusConnects that has disappeared. Where is the active travel infrastructure? Has any been built outside the city centre (and maybe Glanmire)? Where are the safe cycle routes across the city which were supposed to be delivered by 2026? Where are the greenways? Where is the enhanced pedestrian infrastructure? Nobody even seems to think about active travel any more.

    Even the roads have gone into a deep freeze? Where is the Southern Distributor Road? When did you last hear of that? The Douglas East-West Link? Vanished into thin air, without a trace.

    It really is great that there is progress on rail travel, but rail is a small section of CMATS and will only serve a small part of Cork’s population. The rest has just disappeared.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭jimbob955


    I think you are so right @Aontachtoir

    Depressingly true on so much of the above. How far away is the Northern Distributor Modal Road? 10-15 yrs? Which means the SDR is at least 20-25 years away?

    I think some really smart focused AT investment could make a huge impact. Carrigaline to Ringaskiddy, Glanmire to city, Ballincollig to UCC, Douglas to Passage. I would prefer money invested here and not the Kinsale greenway.

    The Luas and Rail projects are amazing and I full support. But my fear is that they will only really serve and benefit a sliver of people along the Lee or east to Midleton. We simply have to get Bus connects delivered to connect other areas to the proposed Luas and Train stops.

    This current government really seem to have AT and PT down the list of priorities



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    We get the governments we deserve. I have personal friends who are active across different political parties, and your last sentence is accurate: sustainable transport is not considered a significant political issue right now, and that's probably because of what they're getting as feedback from focus groups unfortunately.

    I think a route forward could be to un-link the word "sustainable" from the word "green". Rather than seeing AT & PT as "green" and "environmental" they need to be seen as the only logical model for transport within our cities for economic and logistical reasons.

    We need more housing. It's probably the top priority now. Cars need space. If our growing city's transport is car-oriented then that city needs to sprawl. Sprawl means more land mass to manage for electrical/water/wastewater/health/security/etc services. Sprawl even means more transport infrastructure to maintain (bridges, traffic lights, surfaces, etc). Car-oriented city transport uses more fuel, which is another drag on our economic efficiency. By any of the above metrics - none of which are "green" - we need to get as many people as possible to shift modes when in or around our urban areas. Any politician who thinks we can grow efficiently but stay car-oriented is losing my vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 706 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Personally, I think that the "green" label should be more or less retired, or at least put on hiatus. It belongs to a different political era. "Sustainable" is okay and still meaningful going forward, because our unsustainable growth is causing so much misery that most people can see we need to change course.

    However, I do think that for every time a politician uses the word "sustainable", they should say "better quality of life" three times. The two are intrinsically and inseparably linked, but people are understandably much more likely to support changes that are justified as improving their quality of life rather than improving society's sustainability (even though these are usually the same). It would also require opponents of better public transport etc to explain why they are not "anti-better quality of life."

    Separately, the Dublin Transport Authority Amendment Bill to permit the NTA to put through planning for Cork BusConnects has now passed the second stage in the Dáil, and has been sent on to the committee stage. I listened to part of the debate, and was cheered a little to see the volume of support for public transport (very little mention of active travel) coming from around the Dáil. All the opposition parties I heard warmly welcomed the bill, although many had their own complaints about bus route changes, BusConnects rollout in Dublin etc (and Minister Buttimer spoke out against the new Cork Luas route in Bishopstown). Hopefully this means the Bill can proceed and be on the books by the summer recess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    "Liveable" is a better word, I think. Places like Carrigaline are less liveable than the older suburbs inside the N40 which have local shops and services in walking distance of housing, and bus services to bring you into the main commercial centre.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 312 ✭✭jimbob955


    Absolutely true, so many newer developments in carrigaline, ballincollig, glanmire, Lehnenaghmore are not liveable under your definition.

    Massive housing developments, with nothing in them to build a community and make friends, no local shop, no local school, or playground or cafe or safe space for kids to play and gain independence. No bus lanes or proper connected though out AT and PT. The "planning" department in cork city and county council are terrible. We are turning into American society where we are utterly car dependent in our never ending sprawling suburbs.



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