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Ireland vs Israel - To play or not to play, that is the question Read OP for Mod Warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    Some country is going to have to stand up and show leadership. The governments of western countries, and the leaders of international organisations, have shown that they are spineless and subservient to the whims of Israel. Ireland has an opportunity to show leadership reflecting people who still have and value humanity. It may have to be the players as almost happened in women's basketball. If Ireland show this leadership then other teams and countries may quickly join in and then the whole genocidal brutality could be ended very quickly.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/09/irish-women-basketball-team-refused-to-shake-hands-with-israel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,733 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    No, it has been suggested it will change nothing. There is no guarantee it won't. And I have never claimed it's a guarantee it will. But we have recent and direct evidence that it could.

    And either way, I'm secure in the fact im advocating taking a stand against a genocidal state, you've to accept the fact you're advocating turning a blind eye to their actions.

    The Celtic proposal was a suggestion to overcome what one poster was portraying as the singular reason to play the games. Aside from that topic, there are several reasons why this is a necessary debate.

    Finally, it's insulting to the memories of those killed in the middle east to suggest I'm living in some sort of fantasy, the events driving this conversation are as real world as you can get, you're going to have to accept that fact and contribute accordingly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    You are a hypocrite. You dismiss the direct quotes from Dave Courell. Now your full of whataboutery.

    And "every potential of greater ramifications" is just PR waffle to justify taking the morally dignified position.

    So is your boycott suggestion then just PR waffle to satisfy your virtue signalling ideology? So you are just all virtue signalling shoulda woulda coulda.

    The "serious consequences" to the FAI are real. Failure to fulfil fixtures means they lose revenue, which are a key part of any sporting bodies ability to function. Thats an absolute given. The FAI make most of its income from playing games in Dublin and fulfilling away games as part of the TV rights deal.

    Your idea has zero credibility and it was more then just me saying the financial repercussions for the FAI are a major consideration. You have not presented anything that will overcome the financial aspect which is still the single biggest reason why the FAI cannot boycott the games.

    The FAI already took a stand. UEFA didnt budge. Dave Courell even stated last week that despite the escalation in the middle east in the past while the position with UEFA has not changed. The games will go ahead.

    The middle east situation won't be resolved by the non playing of two football games. Your incredibly naive if you believe that.

    Finally, it's insulting to the memories of those killed in the middle east to suggest I'm living in some sort of fantasy, the events driving this conversation are as real world as you can get, you're going to have to accept that fact and contribute accordingly

    And the consequences for the FAI are real world too. They have bills to pay, obligations to employees who have families to provide for. Thats also the real world.

    Based on your Ireland v Celtic rubbish you are living in some sort of alternative fantasy land. You are so far removed from reality its unreal. The events in the middle east are real world, and require real world solutions by those in political office, not sporting organisations.

    The FAI have close to zero credit in the bank to defend them from their historical record influencing how they are still being viewed. Zero.

    If the FAI have no credit which influences how they are still being viewed then nobody will take them seriously if they boycott the games? If they have no credibility then nobody will take them seriously but boycotting two games will end a war in the middle east.

    The FAI passed a motion and brought it to UEFA. Nobody further action was taken. They took a stand, did more then anyone else out there. Nobody else raised their hands in support. .

    And why did the basketball team fulfil those fixtures? Perhaps because of the financial and sporting repercussions

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/basketball/68226819

    Post edited by Paddy_Mag on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    The path to action is at political level.

    Boycotting two games and elevating Israels team to higher profile football matches wont solve anything. If everyone in irelands group and subsequent groups boycotted games v Israel very quickly they will find themselves playing in the Euros in 2028. A Global stage essentially.

    I clearly said you should go to Israel and demonstrate your anger at them in person. I never said go their to show them your support.

    You want the FAI to make huge sacrifices for virtue signalling. Yet are you willing to make the same sacrifices in your own life? Or does your selfish interests take precedence?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,960 ✭✭✭csirl


    There's a huge sense of "I'd like a protest, but I'm not willing to protest myself.......someone else should do it...." off some of the pro-protest posters.

    I bet they"re all still using Israeli products and services.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,733 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Are you for real?

    I need to go to Israel or stop highlighting their genocidal practices and destructive influence?

    Get a grip of yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,733 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You might be on to something, if your definition of protesting, as it seems to be for some people, is to go to Israel and to do it there, or else stop talking about what the country is doing.

    Using your logic, you must see the sense we get of people supporting Israel from other posters on here. Or maybe you can tell us what you are doing to demonstrate your disagreement with Israel's actions?

    And to be clear, this is not a both sides thing, Israel is carrying out a genocide, is enacting apartheid on the Palestinians, and has attacked and invaded a neighbouring country and has started another war against another neighbour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    No, i said you should bugger off to Israel and tell them how bold they are. Your grasp of basic English is shockingly poor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,733 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The path to action is at political level.

    All advocacy in history was attempted to be shut down by the powers that be in the same manner as you are doing.

    But to explain to you the link between protests and eventual outcomes, "all politics are local". That is what happened with the Dunnes strike eventually influencing the Irish Government to ban South Aftrican products which fed in to global resistance which led to the end of apartheid there.

    I'm not saying the path is straight or guaranteed, but the path exists and has happened before, so stop posting like it either doesn't exist, or you dont know about it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So the FAI should commit financial suicide for a long odds shot at world peace. Gotcha. You're even more deluded then I thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,733 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It's not financial suicide. Stop using that BS excuse.

    This is Israeli Prime Minister, in the last couple of days maybe as recently as yesterday.

    image.png

    Can you show me the West Bank on his map? Why do you think it is not shown?

    This is what you are arguing on behalf of time and time and time again.

    For forty years he has manipulated Western sentiment which has led to massive conflict in the Middle East, the deaths of hundreds of thousands and the displacement of millions. Events which have led to consequences up to and including the protests this past week in Ireland.

    If you truly cared about Irish interests, you would also want Israel to be curtailed from what it has been doing. Yet you are vehemently against any advocacy to promote that. Why is that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    https://www.bbc.com/sport/basketball/68226819

    John Feehan, CEO of another national spotting organisation in 2024 when a boycott was mooted after they drew israel

    1000010026.jpg

    1000010023.jpg

    Thats TWO CEO of national sporting bodies spelling out the reality yet you call it BS from your ivory tower. Everyone can see through your BS. It doesn't impact you so you dont care about those a boycott will impact. All for some virtue signalling nonsense and some misguided belief that the political powers in the world actually take notice of the FAI, who you also claim have no credibility.

    Sacrificing your income is financial suicide. Im self employed, a sole trader. I generally see ~25-35 clients a week for 1 hour appointments (am a manual therapist). If i dont go to work, I dont get paid. Simple as.

    Cant pay the rent on my room I work out of, can't pay my mortgage, cant put food on the table, cant pay the bills and have three kids, one of whom sits the leaving cert in June and is going to college in the autumn hopefully.

    When i go away with family for two week holiday, I dont have an income for those two weeks, likewise at Christmas I take 10 days off, I dont get an income.

    If the FAI dont fulfil fixtures, they dont generate income. Its basic economics. The FAI rely, almost completely on UEFA for income. Matches = income. UEFA runs the competitions that generates that income.

    Thats the real world. Something you spectacularly fail to grasp.

    I am against the idea that the FAI should make themselves the fall guys for some virtue signalling nonsense from gombeens in their ivory towers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,733 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Can you answer the questions you were asked in the post please?

    You comment about everything else, why did you ignore that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    An Irish soldier is trained and expected to respect people and not to open fire on them. There afre rules of engagement.

    Alloanz are funding an army who obey no rules of engagement and are not expected to to do so. There are no rules of engagement on the IDF who are a rabble and their Government encourages them to murder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    And what has this got to do with Ireland v Israel.

    I never mentioned Irish soldiers. Bizarre stuff



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    ireland should have nothing to do with a country who expects and demands that their army murder and commit Genocide. Simple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    So we cut off all ties with USA and the UK too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    What recent genocide did they commit ? Israel is the only state committing genocide. Why would we not play UK and US ? Bizzare.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    You said murder too. Have the USA and UK a squeaky clean record in all the wars they have been involved in, in the last 25 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Google is your friend. Stop with the bizzare stuff Paddy. It's very childish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,733 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The ones with the question marks at the end of the sentences.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 273 ✭✭Enter Username Here


    This has come up in my feeds on other forums a few times in the past week.

    European Citizens' Initiative — Demand the full suspension of the EU-Israel Association Agreement in view of Israel’s violations of human rights

    Scroll down and you can see the number of signatures per country so far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,733 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭Paddy_Mag


    Already answered the last paragraph.

    Can't be arsed with the rest of your drivel



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,474 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    The irony of accusing another poster of posting drivel…

    You've being banging on repeatedly about FAI employees not being able to "put food on the table" nonstop for weeks now. That kind of whinging sounds a lot like the fuel protesters of the last week who fortunately, just got handed their arses. But they only kept it up for a five days…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,733 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Except you didn't answer it.

    I'm pretty sure you don't care about the FAI, or the Irish football team, maybe you do, but I seriously doubt it. You've picked a singular argument that you think negates any call for action to boycott Israel and even when asked if that was overcome, would you support a boycott, you refused to answer that question also.

    You're here to do one thing, and one thing only, detract from any suggestion that representatives of Israel suffer consequences because of the action of their country.

    I've no interest in asking you to discuss anything else, I know the playbook you're using.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭wildgreen


    I think ordinary citizens across the World are ready for a chain reaction against the Israeli genocide. Just needs a small spark to ignite it and then the heads of international organisations supporting the ethnic cleansing will be powerless.



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