The Kerry Babies Case

I understand it's the Kerry Babies case, and I know she is intertwined with the whole thing, but her story has somewhat reached its conclusion now, and it pretty much has no bearing on Baby John receiving justice any longer.

I don't think we need to avoid talking about her as such, there is plenty of related information about the Gardai methods, and the lengths they went to, but the speculation about her private life, and her reasons for doing what she did and all that doesn't really contribute much imo.

Anyway, I suppose I would just advocate for people to be cognisant that she is also a victim when posting about her.

He certainly knows now. And he's saying nothing

It's hard to think of a way the parents can come out of this without culpability, but I guess it is possible that they handed over the baby to a trusted individual to look after, and then that person actually committed the murder, but I don't know how likely that is.

However to stab a baby 28 times would indicate to me that it's a total psychopath, like absolute clinically insane and should be locked up for life in an insane asylum. I don't know, it's just so grim I can't get my head around it really.

Normally , I'd be inclined to agree with this, especially because it has been accepted by everyone for over 40 years that she had nothing to do with the murder of Baby John.

But the Hayes family and the media ran a campaign for almost 40 years on this issue and the family were rewarded with €2.5 Million in compensation in an extraordinary process which has never been debated properly.

And there are many in the media and social media even now who try to mitigate the murder of Baby John because of the fiasco of the Garda investigation which wrongly linked the family to the murder of Baby John.

I also can't help but think that whoever killed the poor defenceless little baby, what other crimes did they commit in their time that went undetected? Cruelty to children, animals etc. or worse? It's not the kind of act that an otherwise decent person would commit "out of character"

Definitely not, in fact it is completely deranged, like utter psychopath stuff. Whoever did it either had to have a total psychotic episode as a parent who just completely snapped. Sometimes you see something similar in the news even if very rare. And that is dreadful, but at least there is some precedent of sorts. That's the best scenario.

If it was someone who was not emotionally connected, then that person must be an absolute monster, I've never heard the likes of it outside of like a war zone or concentration camp type situation. They should not be allowed to interact with people ever again, and yet they seem to have been allowed to continued on their life down there.

Thanks again, and glad we put that to bed but you don't really need to keep making my point. In the floods of media commentary over the past 30 years, you can't find any media mention of this highly salient fact.

I think it makes a big difference that every one of the Hayes family started out by lying to the Gardai.

Especially as the Gardaí knew they were lying because of medical evidence they had gathered.

How much should the family have received if they had been truthful? €50 Million would sound about right to me - around €10 Million per head.

But €2.5 Million sounds far too much if their lies started a wild goose chase that ended in a national scandal.

The Hayes family were part of the whole Kerry Babies story so it’s difficult to not mention them in any discussion. No doubt they’ll be talked about again if there’s any new developments. That would be really awful for them to have everything dragged up again after four decades.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/01/03/gerry-ocarroll-former-murder-squad-garda-involved-in-kerry-babies-case-dies-after-short-illness/

Wrong - everyone had accepted that Joanne Hayes was not the mother of Baby John. That was established by the Tribunal in 1985. Even Gerry O'Carroll, the last of the holdouts, eventually admitted Joanne Hayes was not the mother of Baby John because, as he had asked, the body of Baby John was exhumed. So now we know the true parents but it's up to the DPP whether there will be any action.

I want a debate about the reasons for the €2.5 Million payment. Not as much as I want justice for Baby John and closure for this terrible case but I don't apologise for questioning this unprecedented payment. Of course, you want to close down debate on Boards on this as on many other topics where you have your mind made up.

And you are simply lying when you say that They beat confessions out of the Hayes family. I hope you have not involved Boards in a defamation claim this time (unlike all the media who forked over big sums to O'Carroll and others for the same lies in the past) but only because the Gardai involved are now dead. Personally I don't speak ill of the dead unless I am on solid ground but your hatred and bias is obviously overwhelming.

When the State paid out millions, the Garda apologised for "failings in the investigation" but never suggested there had been violence against any of the Hayes family. The Tribunal explained how the confessions came to be but the High Court, in the most bizarre ruling without any evidence or hearing, has "quashed" the Tribunal's Report so we are officially in the dark. Of course, the Garda apology failed to mention that the Hayes family, each of them in turn, lied to the investigating Gardai who already knew the truth about Joanne's pregnancy. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20465890.html

If you see no difference between the culture of AGS then and now, you simply are not paying attention but you are very ready to condemn as "turds" those officers you know very little about.

As usual you have nothing but abuse to offer when your ignorance is exposed