Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

That said her training at junior level, probably with better coaches then the women's certainly gave her an advantage when she took the sport up again.

What actually gave her an advantage, was being male.

No True Scotsman would argue against your claims either 😏

I'm not sure which decision of CAS you're referring to that the criteria of any event under the auspices of the IOC were evaluated. Hell I'm not even sure what decision of CAS you're referring to that you claim the criteria were found by CAS to rightly discriminate on the basis of sex. It certainly wasn't the Caster Semenya and ASA v IAAF anyway, because in that case CAS completely sidestepped any examination of sex, and instead examined whether women with DSD have an advantage over other female athletes and, if so, whether the magnitude of that advantage is capable of subverting fair competition in certain athletic events -

While the parties' submissions concerning the validity of the concepts of "biological males" and "male sport sex" provide important context to the arguments for and against the DSD Regulations, the Panel notes that the validity of these concepts and the appropriateness of the IAAF's terminology do not themselves require determination as matters of fact. The Panel, therefore, does not consider it necessary specifically to determine whether the IAAF's invocation of the concept of a "male sport sex" possessed by "biological males" and a "female sport sex" possessed by "biological females" is valid and/or proper. Instead, the Panel considers it appropriate to focus on whether women with 46 XY DSD such as 5-ARD have an athletic advantage over other female athletes and, if so, whether the magnitude of that advantage is capable of subvetiing fair competition in certain athletic events.

Award-5794-final-with-redactions-for-publication-compressed.pdf

Frank if there's one thing I absolutely do not do, it's run.

(waddle after a bakery van perhaps as it's just about to take off, but run? No 😂)

And hiding? I suppose if you call going to bed to sleep because I have to be up in the morning to chase bakery vans, 'hiding', then yes.

I like a fresh pastry with my morning coffee and a smoke 😏

Born in the wrong Bodi, so I was 😂

Frank as much as you're entitled to ask stupid questions, I'm under no obligation to entertain them.

I told you last night that I wasn't wasting any more time on it. That was before I 'ran and hide' as you put it, when all I was doing, literally, was going to bed.

Given that the IAAF (now WA) only had regulations in place for athletes with male DSDs in women’s events (no females with either naturally high testosterone or DSD were restricted from competition), CAS didn’t need to speak to ‘male sport sex’, however, they very clearly ruled that discrimination was appropriate to maintain the integrity of the female category, and that discrimination was against male XY DSD athletes, so yes, the discrimination was sex based.

What actually gave her an advantage, was being male.

Advantage indeed.

Again for those at the back, she finished LAST.

between males and females in sport that we still have a 10% better performance by men in elite sports

The discussion isn't around men though, the discussion is around Trans Women.

The delusionists

That would be those who believe trans people do not exist.

Being male was the primary advantage for Hubbard, no ifs or buts or other whataboutery.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.

In any case, I wasn't sure about Boggles claim that Hubbard finished last; they didn't. They didn't finish, which meant that they weren't ranked at all.

But ya, lets focus on them failing in their Olympics attempt and ignore all the other instances where they used their unfair male advantage to win gold and silver medals. Standard.

To be fair, 'twas me who brought it up again, as an example of the reality of men competing in women's sports, and the evidence which it provided which, to be completely honest - wasn't much either way, and nowhere near conclusive enough to support an argument either way (let alone that argument credibly being regarded as scientific).

But rather than focus on Hubbard (relevant in this particular context, to this particular discussion), I haven't lost sight of the woman who actually won the competition, and she's doing alright, I guess, for a girl 😏

In 2019, Li competed at the IWF World Cup in Fuzhou, winning silver medals and setting junior world records in the snatch, clean & jerk and total in the +87 kg category. Later in 2019, she competed at the 2019 Asian Weightlifting Championships in the +87 kg category. In the snatch portion she set a world record with a lift of 147 kg, and won gold medals in all lifts.

She competed at the 2019 World Weightlifting Championships in the +87 kg division against teammate Meng Suping. She had a perfect 6 for 6 day and won gold medals in all lifts which included a world record clean & jerk of 186 kg which also set the total world record.

Li improved on her own world records at the 2020 Asian Weightlifting Championships in 2021. She increased her snatch record from 147 to 148, her clean & jerk record from 186 to 187, and her total record from 332 to 335.

She represented China at the 2020 Summer Olympics in Tokyo, Japan. She competed in the women's +87 kg event, winning the gold medal with a new Olympic record of 320 kg.

In August 2024, she finished in first place in the women's +81 kg event at the 2024 Summer Olympics held in Paris, France.

Li Wenwen - Wikipedia

Be getting a knock on her door from the sex police if she doesn't stop winning everything and breaking records 🤔

Transwomen who are biological males.

And I agree with all of that, except for the part where you want me to use my imagination to conceive the scenario which you describe.

Respectfully, as I think we can both agree, the stakes involved are far too high to engage in that sort of behaviour.

Your position is an ideological one which you want me to accept, which I simply cannot, not due to the lack of common sense, but rather the lack of scientific evidence which would support your position.

It’s a bit like the other poster claiming that ‘assigned at birth’ is accepted nomenclature in relation to the scientific determination of sex. Acceptable to themselves, is what I’m sure the poster means, and if I don’t agree to it they recommend I take it up with TENI. If I had an issue with it, were I to take it up with anyone, I’d take it up with an ultrasound technician.

If that was deliberate - Bravo Señor! 😂

Hell if it wasn’t deliberate it was still incredible! 😂

While there have not been "scientific" tests, that ideology certainly passes the eye test.

That’s kinda the problem - there haven’t been scientific tests in relation to the participation of men in women’s sports, let alone competition, let alone competition at elite levels (I don’t imagine the inverted commas are necessary?). It’s why I wouldn’t recommend anyone rely on mere eyesight alone, and as for the brain which is doing the processing - unquestionably an unreliable narrator, so to speak 😏

Once upon a time a one-eyed man could have said "Doth my eye deceive me?" but at no time in the history of English has "Doth mine eyes…" been a possible thing to say.

https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/62/messages/91.htmlError

Safe to say the author at the time may not have predicted that 😂

Reference, just in case 😬https://www.folger.edu/explore/shakespeares-works/the-comedy-of-errors/read/5/1/

(though who doesn’t love Shakespeare? Heathens 😒)

One of the easier questions I have been asked to be fair.

I am a man. Not a Trans Women.

They are 2 different things.

Clear?

It doesn't say discrimination based on sex, it says without discrimination… and it goes on to give examples, and includes as a catchall - or 'other status', as in 'without discrimination of any kind'.

"Without discrimination" means that discrimination is not in line with their charter. Are you really still arguing that?
Putt athletes at a disadvantage based on sex is discriminatory. Therefore that sex based discrimination is againt there charter.

I don't know why you're bringing up TENI and telling me I'm saying they don't know what they're talking about. I'm sure they do, I just don't care. Just like I would say to you - I'm sure you know what you're talking about. I just don't care.

I brought them up because you asked for a source that uses the "Assigned at birth" nomenclature. You claimed it was clearly not supported. Very strange to claim to not care about Trans Equality's nomenclature, after specifically asking for a source for the same.

I also don't know why you're asking me does my view align to the IOC rules, I didn't bring that up either. My issue is with the IOC's ignoring it's own philosophy when it's convenient. So when you ask me does my view align to the IOC rules - it doesn't. It couldn't, when their own rules don't even align with their own Charter.

I asked about the IOC, because you brought up the IOC.

Their rules obvious align to their charter, as I explained to you in the opening paragraph.

There is no one magically becoming Trans over night.

The question is ridiculous and shows complete ignorance for what trans people are and what they have to go through.