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Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    especially when they won’t tell you what sport they’re involved in but just drop hints when asked and ask you to figure it out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    For the deluded who think this is rare, it's worth a try bringing in some information. Here are two useful websites which deal with exactly this myth :

    and

    For the rest of us, we can play excuse bingo with the "Myths" section in HeCheated :

    I think we have #1, #2 and #3 on repeat in the last day or two. It might be quicker to reply to those posts with the myth number.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭Enduro


    She is 100% female gender, and always has been.

    But in sports, there should be solid, measurable criteria to divide categories. So age categories are based on how old you are (generally accepted to be provable with official documentation). With weight categories, a calibrated scales is normally used to weigh competitors at a specific point in time before their event. And for Sex Categories there is now a SRY test to screen entries to the Female category.

    That's all that matters in a sporting context. These rules apply to sports, their scope does not reach beyond that. But in a sporting context, and no more, if someone doesn't pass the screening process to enter the Female category then they will not be categorised as female.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is probably worth noting that the SRY test is a screen but does not make any definitive decision. Those who test positive will have to go through further testing before being ruled out and certain DSDs such as CAIS which do not provide any benefit will not have an impact.

    It is about as rigorous and fair as it is possible to make it without just giving up on the distinction of sex classes full stop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,477 ✭✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    "Ability not gender" if you have a problem with that phrase, you need to take it up with the FAI.

    So I googled that, underage girls can play on the boys team, and team selection will be based on ability, not gender.

    But also, girls can play a year younger, ie. an u14 girl can play with the u13 boys. Why is that I wonder...?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Jesus, thank God. I didn't know where you going with the start of that sentence.

    Girls can play down a year to aid their development if the club don't have a girls team.

    We don't do it though because they would dominate.

    The majority of our women's national team came through the system of playing with boys, as did exclusively all the England's National Team when they first won the EURO's as far as I know. In England Males and Females can play up until Under 18.

    The narrative that girls are wilting flowers who couldn't possibly compete with boys and would only get hurt, is fair frustrating for me to read, I can only imagine what is like for the girls competing, drives them on more probably. Hopefully.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,922 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    That last paragraph is a strawman and unneeded.

    Most clubs would have both genders in the same team up until puberty.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Most clubs would have both genders in the same team up until puberty.

    No they wouldn't, not if they have girls teams competing in the girls leagues.

    About of a quarter of clubs don't have female teams.

    That last paragraph is a strawman and unneeded.

    It perfectly sums up the pearl clutchers IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,922 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    *in the absence of a female team, a lot of clubs have mixed gender teams up till puberty.

    You've been clutching at straws for most of the thread and now you're resorting to insults to try and engage others with a strawman argument, it's unneeded, everyone can watch your points die without getting worked up about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Is it "alot" or "most"?

    About three quarters of clubs have female teams.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,591 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I'd consider 75% to be both "a lot" and "most".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭plodder


    Jesus, thank God. I didn't know where you going with the start of that sentence.Girls can play down a year to aid their development if the club don't have a girls team.We don't do it though because they would dominate.The majority of our women's national team came through the system of playing with boys, as did exclusively all the England's National Team when they first won the EURO's as far as I know. In England Males and Females can play up until Under 18.

    I see no problem with that (some girls playing on boys teams). It's allowing boys to play on otherwise exclusively female teams is the problem.

    The narrative that girls are wilting flowers who couldn't possibly compete with boys and would only get hurt, is fair frustrating for me to read, I can only imagine what is like for the girls competing, drives them on more probably. Hopefully.

    You're the only one using that kind of language, and the implication is that's what you think they are, if they are not on board with boys playing on their teams.

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The overwhelming narrative is all Girls are too weak to play with boys.

    But it completely falls down when it's pointed out to them they already do.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If, as adults, competitive sports were not sex segregated, then in the vast, vast majority of those sports (honestly struggle to think of any exceptions except non-sports like snooker) you would have zero women at the top levels of the sport, yes. This is just a biological fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It can't be an exclusive all encompassing fact if out right prohibition exits, because it hasn't been tested.

    image.png

    The problem is people accept things as facts until it turns out they aren't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,674 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    The only woman to win a grand national in nearly 200 years of it being ran is not the gotcha you think it is, particularly when podge openly admitted he couldn't think of a sport, not that a sport didnt exist. Winning the lottery only happens to a minute number of people in the world, not many people get struck by lightning, not many people can solve a rubix cube in less than 10 seconds. These things do however happen, but are very much the outliers. Thats not even getting into the fact that its a horse doing the majority of the work. Fuckin chancer 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Thats not even getting into the fact that its a horse doing the majority of the work.

    This is one of most frustrating things about this debate, people with absolutely zero knowledge of sport throwing their tuppence in.

    But to educate.

    Horse Racing, particularly jump racing is one of the most physically demanding and dangerous sports on the planet.

    The Grand National is seen as the most physical and dangerous races of the calendar.

    Blackmore won almost 600 pro races. Including the Gold Cup and a myriad of other personal accolades in the sport.

    To dilute that down to it was fluke like a lottery win or sure the woman only won because the horse did most of the work is not even thinly veiled misogyny.

    The mask never takes too long to slip. In your case it flew out the window.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭Homelander


    He didn't say it was a fluke that she won. He said the fact she's performing at that level statistically is the fluke element, which is true.

    Manon Rheuame also played in the men's ice hockey league in the US. That is proof that she's a statistically massive outlier and a one in a million skill, it's absolutely not proof that there's no gap between men and women in ability in a broader sense.

    Women are actually not excluded from many men's sports, they just don't partake in them because they're nowhere near as capable.

    There's actually no barrier for women in the NBA, NHL etc where the men earn a colossal amount more than the women's leagues, which is constantly talked about in the media, think the WNBA recently got pay rises actually - why aren't women just playing in the de-facto "men's" league and making bank, then?

    I am inclined to say you're genuinely totally detached from reality is you are unable to accept a world-wide accepted basic fact of common sense and biology that elite women are absolutely not able to compete with elite men in 99% of sporting scenarios.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 967 ✭✭✭greyday


    Deluded by ideology, Rachel was indeed a superb jockey, the owners that supported her along the way had a huge impact on her career and as most of the top jockeys will tell you, they depend on the horse at the end of the day, I dont think many would put Rachel in the class of AP, Ruby, Paul Carberry or currently Sean Bowen, and she was one in a million, Holly Doyle who also is a superb jockey would also not be near the top guys in the sport but could win many group races if she was riding for Ballydoyle.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,674 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Misogyny you say?

    You, of all people, calling anyone misogynist given the pages and pages of posts you've made calling for men to be allowed compete in womens sports because they decide to put on a dress. Holy smokes, thats just delightful.😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,825 ✭✭✭plodder


    LOL. The sanctimony is absolutely dripping off that. Whether the jockey is male or female, it's not disputable that the horse is doing most of the work. That's just a fact and is not to diminish the work that is done by the jockey particularly Rachael Blackmore who did break a glass ceiling with that win.

    Anyway, you never did confirm which sports you coach in. Football and horse racing is it, since you're educating all here?

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,591 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Boys and girls is fine. It's when they hit puberty that the differences appear. I've seen it first hand. NZ national women's team competing against age grade male club teams in training matches and they got smashed. They were physically outclassed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,697 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Rachel was a phenomenal rider who got a lot of good fortune.

    There are thousands of fantastic jockeys who never get the opportunity to sit on such great horses as Rachel did.

    Some did get the opportunity but got injuries or were jocked off after a few mistakes.

    She had the backing and the patience of the third biggest trainer in Ireland during her years and got loads of opportunities.

    She certainly grabbed those opportunities with both hands.

    There is no way that she would out battle most men in a fighting finish but she was tactically phenomenal and a lot of the time on better horses.

    I have no doubt there are women jockeys who could be more successful if they got the opportunities that Rachel did.

    But the reason most don't is because in a fighting finish you want a man on the horse.

    Anyone using Rachel as an example has no idea about horse racing as a sport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Didn’t we talk about Rachael Blackmore earlier in the thread? Horse racing is not a test of the strongest, bravest, cutest jockey or the one with the most endurance. It's a test of the best combination of horse and rider.

    If you took all the top jockeys and had them perform a series of sporting challenges - like Superstars of old - I wouldn’t be betting on Rachael.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Boys and girls is fine. It's when they hit puberty that the differences appear.

    The FAI allow mixed Gender until Under 16s

    The FA Under 18s.

    Denmark have no age limit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    The under 15 Dallas FC boys soccer team (not exactly a high quality outfit) easily beat the US women's national team (the best in the world at that point). But reality has no place in the world of ideology.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 967 ✭✭✭greyday


    Why is that?

    It has been said that Rachel and Hollie are superb Jockeys, they are however still behind the top male jockeys and for the most part its the strength that again is a deciding factor, anyone that knows horseracing will know this is factual, it is not a criticism and should certainly not be seen as not being supportive of women in sport unless of course like yourself the blinded by ideology is so strong that a critical analysis is seen as coming down on women.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,042 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    The US womens national soccer team were beaten by a team of u15 boys. The best teenage male runners can easily beat womens world records that have stood for decades. In 2025 a 17 year old boy set a record in the 800m that is a full 9 seconds faster than the womens record which was set in 1983 (a dubious record in itself)

    The fact that this happens doesnt negate womens sports or show that women are "wilting flowers". Literally no one is saying this. Its just biology. Do you honestly think its because women just dont try hard enough? That's what seems misogynistic to me



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