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Another ridiculous suspended sentence handed out

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭arctictree


    This disqualification thing is a joke. Could someone knock some sense into the legal profession?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,285 ✭✭✭✭walshb




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    2 wrongs here TBF.

    The Guard had no right to ask him his name, or at least the guy wasn't obliged to give it.

    But he seems lovely all the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/crime-and-courts/2044550/breaking-woman-20s-in-critical-condition-after-assault-on-road-close-to-limerick-tipperary-border.html

    There has been 3 serious assaults in the Limerick city area in the past 5 days all resulting in people beat to life threatening conditions. This one last evening with women beating another woman with metal bars was savagery by all accounts. The usual cohort of Irish society involved that get everything for free and cause havoc for the tax payer to clear up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭adaminho




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    all involved are from limerick city ..by the time the chase ended up and they got to ram her car they were just over the border in Tipperary …the assailants are lovely people according to limericks solicitors



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭adaminho


    What has that got to do with calling a guard names? Is there some link or a you just rushing in to slam Limerick again!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭plodder


    Seems like a ludicrously harsh decision and penalty here. The driving ban is particularly nonsensical. Does the judge think the garda can't be trusted to drive carefully even in his private life.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garda-in-bike-chase-gets-driving-ban-and-500-fine-as-graces-law-scrambler-crackdown-due-to-come-into-force/a1841947417.html

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    He was clearly out of control of the vehicle he was driving and admitted so in court.

    It was also captured on CCTV.

    In what court room does that return an acquittal?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭plodder


    His driving might not have been at the professional standard required for any kind of pursuit and he probably deserved some sanction for that - incl. not being allowed to drive a police car for some period, and until he passes some professional test. I don't think he should have been charged with dangerous driving. There's a level of willfulness with that offence (as opposed to careless driving) that would not be present when a garda is pursuing actual lawbreakers as part of their job.

    I don't think it should have affected his ability to drive a car in his personal life. That's crazy and vindictive imo

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I don't think he should have been charged with dangerous driving.

    Why? His driving was both wreckless and dangerous, and it was only pure luck no one was killed or seriously injured.

    I don't think it should have affected his ability to drive a car in his personal life. That's crazy and vindictive imo

    There is no provision in law that states he will only be banned from driving in work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,281 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The garda had every right to ask him his name if he was being threatening or abusive

    The incident is unlikely to have started with the quotes in the article

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    We can only go on what is reported and no where does it suggest the accused initiated the confrontation.

    But no, guards are not entitled to demand your identity except for certain prescribed situations.

    Even the act of his partner parking in the Garda spot would more than likely be a civil matter and not a motoring offence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,281 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Fk the Independent anyway - "scramblers – which are due to be banned from public roads and areas by the end of this week" - they're already banned and always have been.

    Should have been given a bonus if he'd succeeded in knocking the scrote off tbh

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭plodder


    Yeah his driving was "wreckless" as he didn't crash 🙄 … He never admitted to being out of control contrary to what you said above:

    “I came in knowing that I wasn’t going to hit them,” he said. “I was in full control, I knew what speed I was doing.”

    Making sh!t up again

    There is no provision in law that states he will only be banned from driving in work.

    It could have been handled as a disciplinary matter for the gardai or between the Ombudsman and the gardai

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Making sh!t up again

    It would appear you are.

    “I was doing my job, doing my best, trying to get them off the road,” he said. Shields accepted the CCTV footage “doesn’t look as great as I would like it to look, but these things happen.”

    He denied intentionally driving the car over the traffic cone, saying he did not recall seeing it as he was concentrating on the scramblers. However, he accepted his car would have hit the bike on the path if it had not moved out of the way.

    The prosecutor said this was “tantamount to an admission.”

    Local resident Linda Carroll said that afternoon, the garda car came down the road “really fast” and up onto the footpath outside her house. It hit a traffic cone which went under the car.

    There was “a lad” on an electric bike and it “nearly clipped him” but he sped off around the corner, she said. Her partner, Kieran Davitt told the court the garda car “came down the road and just seemed to go out of control.” He handed CCTV footage from the house over to investigators and this was played in court.

    You have 2 eye witnesses.

    CCTV footage of the incident.

    An admittance from the defendant.

    On what planet does a Judge acquit in those circumstances?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 222 ✭✭TerrieBootson


    So, are you anti policing Or pro scrambling?

    Or just a contrarian?

    ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You have nailed your problem with the question.

    I look at the facts independently and filter it through the prism of the actual law.

    I know an absolute mental concept. Right?

    Maybe the Judge is "pro scambling" too. 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭batman_oh




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 58,507 ✭✭✭✭Necro


    If I was a Garda I'd be very reluctant to pursue any suspect/criminal after that verdict. Not worth the personal cost. No wonder the scrotes are flaking round on these machines in Dublin mowing down innocents when Gardai are punished for trying to stop them. They're all laughing at the justice system while the solicitors make hay defending them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭plodder


    The prosecutor saying it was "tantamount to an admission" is not an admission. The prosecutor presumably said he was guilty as well. The judge doesn't just say - that's okay so. Guilty.

    That's not the main issue though, which is that apparently gardai driving in the course of duty in inherently risky, potentially dangerous situations are being held to the same standard of recklessness and culpability (maybe even higher) than the general public. I'm not even sure Joe Public would have got a driving ban of 2 years for mounting the footpath at speed and running over a traffic cone. It's almost as if the garda was being penalised for his intention of catching a criminal and protecting the public.

    Like I said, that's not to say that he met the kind of driving standards that should be expected in this situation. Just that he didn't deserve a criminal conviction and a driving ban

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Professional drivers in Ireland are held to higher standard.

    There is nothing in the Garda Handbook that states a Guard can run over anyone on a scrambler.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Get Real


    He admitted pursuing a dangerous scrambler that was weaving in and out of traffic, whizzing past schoolchildren and being driven in a manner that had no regard for people or the law.

    He admitted pursuing said vehicle. It would appear from what he admitted he mounted a footpath (that the bike was also on btw) in order to block it in. I gather his logic was, he'd then get out and make an arrest.

    I do wonder was it the people who witnessed it and had footage, did they go to gsoc? I'd question their motives. Poor little scrambler wouldn't be related to them would he, or he wouldn't have been attempting to go into their house? And people who were so offended by what the guards were trying to do, made a complaint about it.

    Nowhere did the guard admit to doing anything reckless. His words:

    "He was waiting at the lights when the two bikes “came out of nowhere”, one of them pulling a wheelie"

    "seeing the bikes weave in and out of heavy mid-morning traffic and past pedestrians including children going to schools and creches on “one of the main thoroughfares in the city"

    "The garda’s driving in the CCTV was “not perfect” but there was no evidence of speed and no harm was caused, the barrister said."

    Look, we can't have it both ways. If you're saying well, he was in the wrong. Grand. Then our police can't pursue anyone. Simple as. Because in every single pursuit, there'd be easily a hindsight element to come from.

    Just say it, you're happy with our police not being able to pursue suspects. So next time there's a death, or something, you can't come posting complaining nothing was done.

    It's so clear to see this will have overall consequences it's baffling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Good. Because if that was a young child instead of a bollard he didn't see driving over when he mounted the curb at speed there would be a different slant to this story and to his liberty.

    Modern Policing Tactics has moved on from just chase everything in a squad car that moves.

    The Guards should be given the necessary powers and tools to deal with these dopes on the scramblers.

    The actions of TJ Hooker above are not considered best practice anymore, for obvious reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,827 ✭✭✭plodder


    There is a big difference between professional drivers duty of care and the unique position of garda drivers. Bus and truck drivers only have to be "more careful" and nothing bad will happen to them.

    Gardai are expected to put themselves in dangerous and risky situations, which is why they are exempt from many traffic laws. It's a different situation.

    If he broke any rules in the handbook, then it should have been a disciplinary matter for the gardai (in conjunction with Fiosru)

    “The opposite of 'good' is 'good intentions'”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,775 ✭✭✭Allinall


    What extra power and tools would have dealt with those two scramblers?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭Butson


    Metropolitan Police in London can ram these and also those on mopeds robbing phones etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Gardai are expected to put themselves in dangerous and risky situations

    Not innocent bystanders or general public though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,671 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    That's not up to me.

    But current laws and tactics have done nothing.

    We know that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Get Real


    So scramblers putting bystanders and the general public at risk is the alternative. People with no licences, no insurance, possibly on drink or drugs.



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