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Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Not the first time something like this happened, remember the USAF not getting some of their few F22s off base before a hurricane hit them. A lot more of an impact than losing some end of life F16s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,127 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    You'd hope that if ireland ever does invest in s fast jet program, you'd hope they go to the trouble to put hardenrd shelters in , hopefully in several airfields,( in relative terms concrete is cheap . And that if a new maintenance hanger is to be built , its main doors are in line with prevailing storm winds ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭vswr


    I envisage half a billion for some repurposed shipping containers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭sparky42


    so General O’ Connor explicitly name checking either then Gripen or the FA50 as options if funding allowed in the future.

    https://www.edrmagazine.eu/irish-air-corps-expansion-into-an-air-force



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    "New combat aircraft" - lol.

    He may aswell have name checked the F22 or F35. You're just about as likely to see them with a tricolor on the side as a Gripen or FA50.

    Its all a pipe dream. Government don't care and wont spend the money or commit to it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Seems a bit negative



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Even a dozen of them FA50 would be OK I'm my book



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Would be a hell of an improvement on the toy aircraft they have now. A more heavyweight bit of kit could be bought later once the pilots have cut their teeth on the FA50



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,882 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    We've had this discussion dozens of times on this thread.

    Ireland needs full-fat fighter-interceptors.

    The reason that we do is that we will be operating them from a single, or at most two bases, without tankers and without the support of satellite and AWACS.

    They will need to be fast, rugged and have excellent endurance.

    The FA-50 is a light ground-strike jet based on a jet trainer. We have no need of either.

    We need replacement advanced trainers for the PC-9s, we need advanced simulators, and we need Gen 4.5 minimum fighters.

    Any other solution in the middle of those options is simply tokenism and a waste of money.

    What the Air Corps (Air Force) needs above all else, is a capability development plan similar to the Navy. A plan which sets the force structure to integrate the primary radar and ground-to-air systems with a manned and unmanned fleet of aircraft for the defensive needs of the State from 2026 to 2050.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,150 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    A few off motorway ramps for emergency landings like in Sweden. Some decoy aircraft too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    Motorway off ramps for emergency landings.. Decoy aircraft... Hardened hangars..

    Lord above. This thread has truly turned into satire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    It could be worse the Commision report could have said the Air Corps be fully merged back in to the Army as a Corps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    lol

    Have you seen all the recent appointments of the general staff.

    The green are back in town and the focus will now be on the long forgotten Western Bde above all else, along with Army HQ.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Leonidas BL


    Theres only one thing for it so. Full FAT F-15's



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    As i said in the other Thread i am more worried about the red uniforms under the green ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,150 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Why not? Otherwise an attacker could probably destroy them all at one sweep. Plus it wouldn't cost that much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭thomil


    It’s the off-ramps that do my head in. Those things are curved and often have considerable gradients, making them completely unusable for any type of fixed wing operation.

    https://onlinepubs.trb.org/Onlinepubs/hrr/1963/21/21-002.pdf

    I think what you were looking for was lay-bys. Those were designed to be used on the emergency air bases built into Germany’s Autobahn network, as well as in Sweden.

    Generally, I don’t find the idea of having a few sections of Ireland’s road network suitable for fast jet operations too outlandish. You don’t need a motorway for that, a wide enough single carriageway would do the trick just as well, that’s what’s used in Sweden and Finland. Basically, all you need is a strengthened road substructure to take the weight of aircraft operations, as well as a lay-by at either end of the desired section of road to re-arm, refuel or repair aircraft.

    However, whilst the infrastructure is pretty easy, the support equipment is another matter. You’re going to need a whole fleet of tankers and other trucks to keep the base supplied, mobile radar and air traffic control towers, tents to accommodate both the ground crew and any pilots using the base, some sort of secure trailer to be used as an HQ/comms centre (provided that there are no nearby buildings that can be appropriated for the purposes) as well as all of the support vehicles and equipment you’d need on an actual air base.

    None of this is physically impossible or even advanced technology. However, it is a considerable logistical undertaking. Do I believe it’s a good idea? I’m honestly not sure.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,127 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Didnt the swedes give up on using motorways ect , ?

    I think they moved to using remote airfields and sending refueling,re-arming trucks for use in austure conditions..

    Bas 90

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,213 ✭✭✭sparky42


    any airframe can do it depending on the surface, the US has had planes doing it recently enough. Still don’t see the relevancy for us.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭thomil


    It's not quite that simple. Bas 90 calls for dispersed aircraft stands, short runways and other infrastructure built in the proximity of, and connected to the main base by taxiways masquerading as roads, as illustrated in the diagram below, which I've grabbed from Wikipedia

    Untitled Image

    The completely independent highway strips you mentioned were developed as part of that program's predecessor, Bas 60, drawn up at a time when Sweden was also still pursuing a nuclear weapons program. It was also under that program that remote civilian airfields were built up as additional dispersal facilities. Those highway strips have been partially built back, and Sweden has closed a number of airbases. However, the infrastructure connected to the remaining operational airbases is still there and being maintained. You can see them on roads around bases such as Såtenäs, Jokkmokk or Hagshult, and they're still clearly visible on the likes of Google Map.

    Austere bases with the bare minimum of infrastructure and support equipment are probably going to be all that the budget will allow if Ireland ever does move ahead with equipping a proper airbase.

    Sarcasm aside, I guess my own perspective is partially warped by what I know from Germany. In former West Germany, every Landkreis, that is every county, has a general aviation airfield or stretch of highway is either already capable of accepting military airlifters and lighter aircraft or can be adapted for that with relative ease. That's in addition to any commercial airports or air bases that might be present, although some of the country's more mountainous counties obviously lose out in that regard. The origin of this obviously lies in the Cold War, but increasingly, these airfields and roads are becoming useful for civil defence purposes, given the increased prevalence of wildfires, which are also increasing in severity.

    Having had much of the afternoon and evening to think things through, I've come around to the belief that it would be prudent for Ireland to have a few sections of road prepared in a similar manner, especially in areas with sparse infrastructure, not from a military point of view but from a civil defence standpoint. I'm aware that Ireland is significantly smaller than Germany, but there's little doubt that the frequency and intensity of destructive weather events will increase here as well. Should a large scale civil defence response become necessary as a consequence such an event, it is simply prudent to have such prepared areas of road available as forward staging points, rather than having assets such as helicopters or PC-12 Spectres flying top cover staging out of larger airfields in the rear.

    I'm aware that this might come across as both fanciful and alarmist, but I'm a firm believer in having something and not needing it rather than the other way around. And given the fact that Ireland doesn't even have general aviation airfields in every county, as well as the fact that getting a road upgrade voted through is significantly easier than getting approval for a new public use airfield, upgrading sections of road is simply the most feasible way of improving Ireland's preparedness. However, Ireland's approach to civil defence seems to be even more apathetic than its approach to military matters from what I've seen, so I guess I shouldn't be holding my breath…

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,127 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Theres a list of airports , airfields and aerodromes on Wikipedia, some are quite short , and ive zero idea what the runway surfaces are , or what weights they can bear,

    List of airports in the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia https://share.google/ERYh1leflhm2NZjwR

    but if you wanted to do dispersed replenishment, they'd be good places to start ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    There are several abandoned ones. Sligo…Galway...apart from occasional GA stuff.



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