Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

visatorro · 25-03-2026 12:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124338594#Comment_124338594

Maybe i just remember the disappointing days and blame it on Sean!

eagle eye · 25-03-2026 01:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124338583#Comment_124338583

I think Aki Vs Darcy is the toughest decision of all. I couldn't disagree no matter which way a person called it.

I've said it before and others disagreed but I think Darcy didn't get as much recognition as he deserved because he was playing beside BOD.

For Petes Sake · 25-03-2026 01:58AM

Genuinely amazes me that Josh Van Der Flier being in or out is even a discussion tbh.

eagle eye · 25-03-2026 02:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124338710#Comment_124338710

The same could be said for Keith Wood.

phog · 25-03-2026 09:50AM

Tommy Bowe has to be in the team, our best winger, if he played for another country we'd be in awe of him when he'd come to play against us, same with Keith Wood.

As previously mentioned, if plucking players from before the pro era you'd have to have Simon Geoghegan on the team.

ionadnapóca · 25-03-2026 11:08AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124338629#Comment_124338629

The tactics back then basically amounted to: Give it to SOB.

The Welsh lapped it up. Respect to their BR.

I've lamented much about that game on here over the years. I cant help myself. And it gives me no solace or pleasure to say this: (& Im not having a dig at DK)

- IF Schmidt had Ferris, Best, POC, Earls, Bowe in tandem with BOD and THE most incredible BR; Ireland not only would have beaten Wales, Joe would have had the game plan to beat that French side AND who knows even that NZ team.

That team was all coming into its Prime.

shinana abu · 25-03-2026 12:17PM

Very true...…that was a very talented side...

eagle eye · 25-03-2026 12:29PM

If you are going to bring in the amateur era then it's a whole different situation. The likes of Mike Gibson, Jackie Kyle, Willie John McBride, Fergus Slattery and Phil Orr, to name few, need to be considered.

Phil Orr was the best loose head in the Six nations for quite a few years. He held the world record for most caps at one stage and he never had a bad game.

almostover · 25-03-2026 12:58PM

My 23 of the pro era

15. Kearney

14. Bowe

13. BOD

12. Aki

11. Hickie

10. Sexton

9. Murray

8. Heaslip

7. SOB

6. POM

5. POC

4. Beirne

3. Furlong

2. Wood

1 Healy

16. Best

17. Porter

18. Hayes

19. Ryan

20. Wallace

21. JGP

22. O' Gara

23. Earls

The above is based on actual achievements, performance and longevity in the green jersey. Not potential that was cut short by injury e.g. Ferris and Leavy. It's also reflective of today, some current players will probably displace those on this list in the future.

For Petes Sake · 25-03-2026 01:05PM

Based on achievements, performance and longevity yet you pick Wallace and SOB over VDF.

TRC10 · 25-03-2026 01:08PM

1-Healy 2-Wood 3-Furlong

4-Beirne 5-POC

6-O'Brien 8-Conan 7-VDF

9-Murray 10-Sexton

12-Aki 13-BOD

11-Earls 15-Keenan 14-Bowe

16-Sheehan 17-Porter 18-Hayes 19-D.Ryan 20-Ferris 21-JGP 22-Humphreys 23-D'Arcy

almostover · 25-03-2026 01:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339470#Comment_124339470

Wallace was an integral part of the first grand slam winning team of the pro era, Lions test starter and replacement in 2009, test replacement in 2001 and an integral part of the Munster Heineken cup winning teams of 2006 and 2008 and finalists in 2000 and 2002.

SOB was a replacement for Leinster's 1st Heineken cup win, starter in 2011 and 2012 Heineken cup wins but missed the win in 2018 due to injury. Won a 6N with Ireland in 2015 but missed the 2014 due to injury. And was both a test Lion replacement and starter in 2013 and started all 3 tests in 2017.

VdF has won 1 champions cup with Leinster, played 1 game of the 2018 grand slam because he got injured in the 1st game and was a starter in the 2023 and the 2024 6 nations wins. He has never made a Lions test appearance.

His world player of the year accolade clouds the argument but I don't give that much weight. Josh is a fantastic player but the other 2 guys were better than most of their peers for a sustained period.

For Petes Sake · 25-03-2026 01:58PM

He has more appearances and more tries for Ireland than both of them.

You think Wallace’s 3 Lions test cap is worth more than being voted as the best rugby player in the world? The Lions is a relic of a bygone era that is only designed to make money for the home nations. Winning World Player of the Year represents some of the greatest players to have ever played the game recognising a player as the best.

Come off it. SOB didn’t have the longevity that VDF has, and Wallace hadn’t the individual accolades.

It’s a no brainer that VDF is Ireland’s greatest ever 7, for the simple fact that he was recognised as the greatest player in the world.

I’ve said multiple times here that he’s the most under appreciated and underrated player to play for Ireland, because we have nonsense like putting weight into a glorified exhibition rather than actually being the best as a means to undermine him.

Genuinely baffling mental gymnastics on display again.

vetinari · 25-03-2026 02:05PM

Calling the Lions a glorified exhibition because it doesn't suit your argument is a bit daft.
It matters a LOT to the players to get picked for the squad and to play in the tests.

A world player of the year award is obviously phenomenal but it isn't the slam dunk that you think it is.
There's more to a career than that.

Tommybojangles · 25-03-2026 02:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339653#Comment_124339653

Agree that the Lions should hold massive weight, but a world player of the year award is as close to a slam dunk as you can get

For Petes Sake · 25-03-2026 02:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339653#Comment_124339653

Lions is a slam dunk but being voted by a list of the greatest in the game as the best player in the world isn’t?

Insane.

TRC10 · 25-03-2026 02:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339669#Comment_124339669

I could give two sh*ts about Lions selection. A lot of it is about being in form and injury free at the right time once every 4 years, and the coach always has a bias towards players from the country he coaches.

Fitzgerald played in Lions tests. But he managed 4 tries in 34 caps for Ireland and should be nowhere near this team. Earls never played a test but was a far more prolific winger for Ireland. I’d have Stockdale ahead of Fitzgerald. Likewise, VDF never played a Lions test. Does that mean Tom Croft or Sam Simmonds were better players? Obviously not.

AbusesToilets · 25-03-2026 02:48PM

I'm surprised at how underrated Henshaw is in these teams. I think he's the best centre we've produced not named BOD. Elite at playing at 12 and 13, more complete player than his competition at 12. I've been very critical of his selection this season for Leinster and Ireland, but he is one of Ireland's best ever players.

TRC10 · 25-03-2026 02:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339773#Comment_124339773

Consistent player but never got to the level Aki was playing at in 2023. He put on a load of size when he was young in order to play 12, but I always felt he was carrying to much bulk for most of his career. His best form was around 2020/21 when he looked noticeably lighter. I’d argue he was never as dominant as even McCloskey is currently.

ionadnapóca · 25-03-2026 03:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124338310#Comment_124338310

I'm not saying Keith Wood wasn't an incredible, world class player, who would have thrived also in the modern game, I'm just saying Dan Sheehan is better.

We'll have to agree to disagree! Again! Nice Questions to debate though. Cheers

I think that 2011 was a great collection of freakish individual power athletes in the back row, but it's hard to argue they had the right balance.

When it comes to power athletes - SEdogbo and BWard look the most likely to me to come close to Ferris and SOB.

Hopefully we will be discussing the merits of playing Edogbo & Ward v Baird & vdF!

Tommybojangles · 25-03-2026 03:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339736#Comment_124339736

Eh? I was arguing in favour of VDF. "Not giving 2 sh*ts" about Lions selection is very much your perogative but I think its silly to dismiss it.

On the other hand it is massively outweighed by a world player of the yeat award imo. Id also have stockdale ahead of Fitzgerald. Earls too

almostover · 25-03-2026 03:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339639#Comment_124339639

I also listed each player's win records with province and country. There's nothing between the 3 of them. But for me both Wallace and SOB had athleticism and power that VdF just doesn't have. That's why Wallace and SOB were picked above their peers from 3 other countries for the Lions.

And I agree that the Lions is an anachronism. I also think the WPTY is another relatively meaningless accolade.

What matters is trophies with province and country. And performance with both of those teams. Wallace and SOB could do things that very few in the game could when it came to ball carrying. Both were utter wrecking balls. VdF is a different type of player, he is the quintessential workhorse. POM was one of the best defensive lineout jumpers, jackal threat and leaders in rugby for a number of years. If I could pick them all I would. Wallace and SOB could both play at 6 too, and POM could play 7. VdF in fairness threw to the lineout in one 6N game.

Best 4 flankers of the pro era for me in no particular order are VdF, Wallace, POM & SOB. Have to pick 3 of those 4. Who would you choose as your best 3 flankers of the pro era?

I'm willing to revise my selection in the future, VdF has 3-4 more years left in his career most likely.

eagle eye · 25-03-2026 03:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339938#Comment_124339938

JVDF is far and away the best 7 to ever play for Ireland, it's not even close.

You can spout any stats you want and it doesn't change that.

And I'm a Connacht fan so I'm not part of this Leinster v Munster thing.

And the World rugby player of the year award doesn't cloud things , it just emphasises how good JVDF has been.

shinana abu · 25-03-2026 03:59PM

Cannot help wondering what heights Leavy would have reached

almostover · 25-03-2026 04:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124340030#Comment_124340030

Given our previous interactions on Harry Byrne it seems that you're not a fan of statistics. How do you think the world player of the year is selected? I've added an attachment to help you.

Note that voting from fans also plays a part in the selection. I don't think it's the accolade many make it out to be.

Screenshot 2026-03-25 151015.png

OldRio · 25-03-2026 04:25PM

Very interesting discussion. As for the Lions? Just have a look at some of the players that lined out for them during the Gatland years?

For Petes Sake · 25-03-2026 04:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124340109#Comment_124340109

Exactly. The idea that the Lions is worth a sh*te in the professional era but being one of 18 players in the entire game to be named as the world player of the year is 'not a slam dunk' is utter mental behaviour.

More caps, more tries, was at one stage the best player in the entire sport - but never better than David Wallace. How anyone reads that sentence with a straight face is beyond me.

eagle eye · 25-03-2026 05:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124340080#Comment_124340080

The Harry Byrne things bears no resemblance to this.

I didn't make the world player of the year the be all and end all, I just said it emphasises how great he's been.

He got an Autumn internationals player of the season award as well, that was in '24 I believe?

SOB and Wallace were great players but JVDF was the best forward for Ireland in many games for a long time. I believe he's fifth in player of the match awards after BOD, O'Connell, Sexton and O'Gara. I was told that by a man who knows his stuff, I don't have proof of it.

ersatz · 25-03-2026 08:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124339653#Comment_124339653

Yeah, BOD never got one though you could argue strongly that there were a couple of years where he was incredibly influential and deserved one. That Woods got one doesn't necessarily mean he's Ireland's best ever hooker. The lions is irrelevant though.

50HX · 25-03-2026 09:10PM

Tis only a bit of fun lads picking these teams

It's not insane or mental gymnastics etc if someone picks Wallace ahead of VDF...we all don't have to agree.

P.S I would pick Wallace in my team as well 😁

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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