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Donald Trump the Megathread part II - Mod Warning updated in OP 12/2/26

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭BettyS


    the only thing that prevents complete anarchy are common rules that we adhere to. Most rules protect us and our freedoms. Stealing does not prevent me from taking what I want. It avoids me from having my personal property seized from me in an undue manner. Only criminals decry the rules against stealing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,596 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Nobody has to toe the line if they disagree with it. They can always do the honourable and resign. Something even Hegseth has stated.

    Personally I believe there is a lot to be said for that old adage that evil triumphs when good men do nothing, rather than blindly following orders and attempting to defend them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭BettyS


    agree in theory. But people have families to support, mortgages to pay, health insurances to maintain. Principles come at a price. With the floundering American economy and spiralling unemployment, I don’t know if I would be brave enough to forego my permanent and pensionable job, in order to follow my principles. I definitely wouldn’t be brave enough if I had dependants. Yes. Idealism is important. But it won’t put a roof over their heads. One could argue that the personal risk is too great, if one is maimed or killed. But that is a remote possibility. And bills are an inescapable reality that come every, single month. It is not because these people are not giving their jobs, that they necessarily support the efforts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,189 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    The US has completely abandoned any pretence at following laws of war, so let's not pretend that as a state, they are squeaky clean, or particularly 'honourable'.

    Just this past year or two, they illegally abducted a foreign head of state and have sought to 'control' that state in Venezuela. They have illegally attacked a sovereign state in Iran (twice), despite prior agreements and despite being in 'negotiations'. They have been supplying weapons to Israel to massacre innocent men, women, and children in Gaza as part of the Israeli genocide for the last number of years....

    It goes on and on. I won't bother continuing to list their 'indiscretions' through the decades, but I believe they have been involved in military conflicts almost every year of its 250 odd years of existence.

    I recognise you are knowledgeable about code and so on, but arguing over semantics and legality is pointless in the grand scheme of things.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,703 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    We seem to be in agreement with facts but from the opposite perspective. If nobody can point to any RoE which Hegseth thinks is stupid, and more importantly, nobody can point to a change in the ROE which he has made in the last year that he's been in charge, which they feel to be erroneous or ill-advised the statement in itself is pretty academic and to be taken as such, if not as mere puffery. I suspect some folks would have the same reaction were he to quote Fisher's remarks on violence in war. Doesn't make the comment wrong.

    Deliberate vagueness is indeed a serious issue, but for better or worse, and I suggest for the better, RoE are not defined by vague statements on a podium in Virginia. They are defined through the administrative and regulatory process which we must follow (The same as his statements in the same monologue on the subjects of basic training or women in combat arms: What has been promulgated in practice, and what are the exceptions have you to those changes?). The repeated conflation between RoE and LoW, which started on Boards the day he made the remarks, is not helping the issue.

    FWIW, I suspect he was speaking from the viewpoint of his personal experience in Iraq, and that the RoE he is using as a benchmark were no longer in place at the time of his appointment.

    ETA: Let's assume that any and all changes to the ROE over the last year have been because he thought the previous one was 'stupid'. We know, for example, that in January this year he approved a change on the use of force for base protection, as demonstrated by actions on/near Ft Bliss the following month. I doubt the previous ROE would meet my personal definition of 'stupid', and may merely have been 'overly restrictive' but has his personally defining it as such caused much of a problem?

    Post edited by Manic Moran on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,596 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    There is also the small matter he appears to have missed that there is not going to be a U.S. installed leader of Iran that is going to acceptable to, if even one, of the half dozen or more factions who have their own ideas as to what form of statehood should have. It`s a recipe for a civil war based on the ramblings of a lunatic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,337 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Maybe he'll be satisfied with the title "Shah-an-Shah" after he leaves the U.S presidency?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,596 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The other side of that coin would be the Republican Guard in Iran, which the U.S. view as morally corrupt for supporting the present regime and must be removed or annihilated to bring down that regime.

    When it comes to the moral high ground I do not see where the difference is. Especially when someone is attempting to defend the very clear lack of morality in this present U.S. administration



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,337 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    It's probable that his comments on R.O.E's being stupid are in line with his comments about the U.S war on Iran not going to be a fair fight so there's no point in him having one hand tied behind his back. His way is for total unrestricted war on the Shia regime in Iran until he has obliterated the enemy he sees himself [and the U.S] as facing there - him being the winner still standing when the dust settles.

    Edit: Listening to RTE news reader talking to a correspondent suggesting that Russia may have helped Iran in retaliation for the U.S helping Ukraine, in that Iran has been able to knock out U.S sites which would have been very useful to the war effort in the region and a hotel used by U.S civilians close to the war effort was attacked by Iran causing injuries to the civilians.

    Post edited by aloyisious on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭BettyS


    sorry, I articulated my point poorly. In all cases, ordinary folk often do not support ideology. They are simply complying because they have bills to pay and lives to support. I would not necessarily think that just because a person is in the army, they agree. They know that their next pay check depends on compliance with their orders. This is true for all sides



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Ft Bragg has 5 schools on post, would those be legitimate targets? The school wasn't actually on a military compound afaik, just in proximity to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭BettyS


    Also, the problem with striking schools, how can you ever engender goodwill and cooperation in negotiations, when you are striking schools. Iranians who would have otherwise been neutral will be enraged and want justice for the dead, little-ones.
    The aim should not be to throw petrol on the flames. Every diplomatic avenue should be exhausted, to contain the wrecking ball conflict that threatens to envelop the entire ME. Civilian attacks will entrench any hostilities towards the other side. And ultimately, who wins if this is an all-out war??! Money will mean nothing, if the place has been torn apart and the blood of the innocent staining the ground that they walk on. It should be in every single country’s interest to de-escalate and to find a solution that will be feasible for all parties



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,596 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    People may comply because it suits their needs, but when you are living in a glasshouse throwing stones at your perceived lack of morality in others who support a regime - especially when attempting to defend a clear lack of morality in the regime you are serving - is not a great look in my book and is hypocritical.

    In fact when it comes to being in employment that looks after your needs, I imagine resigning and finding other employment in Iran would be much more difficult than in the U.S. if you resigned on moral grounds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭BettyS


    I am struggling to follow what point you are trying to make



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Just another freak show at the White House yesterday.

    White stated during a prayer at the White House that wherever she stands becomes holy ground. She claimed that opposing President Trump equates to opposing God and described the situation as a spiritual war against demonic networks. White also spoke in tongues and asserted she is downloading heaven guided by divine thoughts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,543 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,691 ✭✭✭yagan


    Remember when we had our religious nut hijack a plan because they wanted to know the third secret of Fatima?

    Thats where we're at with the US now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    All kayfabe bullshit from professional grifters, and their idiot followers lap it up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭BettyS


    I always smile when that comes on Reeling in the Years. The people on the plane were so chill.

    The problem with fighting against somebody’s belief, is that you can end up entrenching that belief further. They say the best strategy to de-radicalise is to ask somebody to explain logically their belief. However, with the echo chambers that now exist, people never face people who do not align with their beliefs. One of the reasons that I like Boards is that we can have discussions and explain our differing view-points



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,691 ✭✭✭yagan


    No one is going waste a second listening to Enoch Burke and US fundi funded bag of fruit loops.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Now Trump is an expert on Iranian politics and considers the new prospect a “lightweight”. He just can’t shut up about anything.

    Any leader picked by Trump would have quite the time running that country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭BettyS


    I like Manic’s posts. I largely disagree with his views. But I find them informative and it helps me to see things from a different perspective. Beliefs are complex, a product of our upbringing and life-experiences, and it is refreshing to meet posters with sufficient introspection to dissect their own beliefs and to present them for discussion. This is one of my favourite things about Boards



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    One of the reasons that I like Boards is that we can have discussions and explain our differing view-points

    I agree 100% 😉

    Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/ .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭BettyS


    Incoming call from Iran, 1953. It wants to remind people of what happens when America facilitates its coup d’état and to decide its leader…… It is a bit audacious of the Americans to not remember their history and the problems that they helped to create



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭pah


    Hegseth called the ROE's stupid because he doesn't like following ANY rules. Also because he lacks the vocabulary and intelligence to articulate anything in the moment. (It's because he's a fooking idiot)

    This is his position on it, from his own book.

    In his 2024 book, The War on Warriors, Hegseth directly questions whether the U.S. military should be bound by international laws that restrict things like torture, civilian casualties, and battlefield conduct. Questioning the Geneva Conventions:

    He wrote, "Should we follow the Geneva Convention? If our warriors are forced to follow rules arbitrarily and asked to sacrifice more lives so that international tribunals feel better about themselves, aren't we just better off in winning our wars according to our own rules?

    "Dismissing the Rules of War: He also argued that American troops shouldn't have to fight by "rules written by dignified men in mahogany rooms eighty years ago."

    I know @Manic Moran is getting bogged down in the pedantics of exactly what Hegseth said with his flippant comment about stupid rules and that fundamentally there have been no changes to the RoE but he is missing the point entirely.

    This is what Hegseth wants for the military. The same thing the administration wants for themselves, no rules, no accountability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,189 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 975 ✭✭✭BettyS


    One of the first things that you learn in philosophy 101 is the following: if I have unlimited freedom, I can kill my neighbour and my neighbour is no longer free. Therefore, freedom can only exist if it is restricted. And it can only be equitable if the we all adhere to the same restrictions.
    I guess Hegseth didn’t attend his philosophy classes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I see this quite a bit here in those that constantly defend Trump or Hegeseth words or actions. The excuses are , it's not unprecedented, it's not strictly illegal, it's not obviously illegal or putting their own positive spin on the statement or action.

    Unlike George W, I dont think the MAGA base will ever turn on this regime, they always seem to think they have positive intentions and that's what matters.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/ .



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