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M21 - Limerick to Rathkeale/Foynes [Adare bypass under construction; remainder pending]

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    It's not part of the main contract so they're not going to mention it in their updates.

    As mentioned earlier in the thread, it's been awarded under a TII Framework so there wasn't a public tender to make headlines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭medoc


    Maybe DroneHawk might show the tie in section on his next update. Either way it’s great that they finally saw sense and got a contract awarded for it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=7577623

    Tender out for 3.5km of motorway between the Adare bypass and the M20 at Attyflin. Estimated value €30m. Job must be complete by June 2027.

    I presume the Adare bypass contractors will bid for and win this contract. Given the constraints they have a distinct advantage



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Certain works, including selected boundary fencing, structures (M21-C11 and UB-11), earthworks(1.4km embankment and widening of the existing N21 embankment) and utility diversions arebeing delivered separately as advance works.

    Confirms that certain parts of this are already being delivered, the embankment as discussed already are part of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    My prediction is that in early 2026 the project is well ahead of schedule and on course for late 2026 completion (possibly runs into 2027 if there are some unexpected difficulties along the way). The seamless tie-in with the existing motorway section of the N21 then gets included in the contract

    I posted that on 18.12.24. The only surprise is that the value is so big that it has to be tendered separately. Sisk will undoubtedly win this contract too.

    That this is happening now after it was previously decided that trying to do the tie-in posed too big a risk raises serious questions over that decision making process. The risk of something not being ready on time for the RC is much greater now and obviously there will be a much higher cost to the taxpayer. It looks like some additional works have already been thrown into the existing M21 contract, no doubt at inflated cost.

    It's interesting to look at the M21 project and the adjacent Foynes rail reinstatement. The M21 was reduced for seriously questionable reasons (albeit there was a specific process in arriving at that decision) and now more time and money is being lost on a new public tender to undo that decision. The rail reinstatement basically ignored the entire approvals process which must be followed and since then costs have increased massively without additional tendering. The issues are the reverse of each other, one the scope was deliberately curtailed and then increased at the last minute while the other didn't wasn't adequately scoped or budgeted for and has essentially become a blank cheque.

    Sisk (the contractor for both) must be laughing their heads off at how these two projects in Limerick have panned out for them. Sisk haven't done anything wrong but the way both projects have been managed is basically funneling money to them.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Indeed, bizarre that it was deemed too risky to include this section in the 2023 contract for fear it wouldn’t be complete by 2027 but the risk is worth taking 16 months out from the completion deadline for it. As you say, it will be more expensive now with the time constraints and urgency involved.

    Also, if the bridge over the Maigue wasn’t considered a risk, it’s hard to see how this section with 1.4km of offline motorway with limited earthworks and simple structures, along with 2.1km of online motorway could be a risk.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    So the the bridge over the L-1424 and a small bridge over a stream (the only major structures in this section) are part of the preliminary works. Along with the embankments up to the underbridge.

    It seems that the main contract only has to lay the road and tie it in with the M20. That sounds very doable by June 2027.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I’m surprised you don’t get the significance of the 2.1 km being an online upgrade, rather than an offline build. If any restrictions remained in place on this part of the road come September 2027, it would make things worse than they are at present, and turn an already difficult operation into a shitshow. A failure on any other part of the build just puts us back to the situation we have at present. Slicing this high-risk part out of the main project and leaving it as an optional extension guaranteed that the worst case was no worse than having done nothing with N21 at all. There was no way that September 2027 would come around with contraflows or single-lane traffic operating on any part of N21 between Limerick and Adare.

    Hindsight makes anyone look smart, but there really was no way of knowing that 2025 would offer pretty much ideal weather for road construction, and the project is now ahead of schedule to the point that, even in the worst case, the M21 link will still be ready by Summer 2027.

    You could argue that the construction could have been phased with the missing part done first, but every road project ever completed here has put the tie-in as the last task. I am sure there are good reasons for this.

    The golf tournament was a double-edged sword: it helped this scheme move forward, but having it on the project critical path also screwed with the scheduling of the works, making them cost more and take longer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I don't think Marno is saying that there's any risk of that work not being finished on time. The point is that there is much more of a risk adding those works to the contract now rather than having including them in the original contract.

    Given they are willing to accept that risk now, they obviously feel it is necessary to have these extra works complete before the RC. The question then is, what has changed that they are willing to accept this increased risk and cost now when they weren't willing to accept the lesser risk and cost two years ago?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Some extra info from the contract documents:

    The upgrade is to be divided into 3 separate sites:

    • From the M20 to the end of the online upgrade (the bend heading west after the Monearla overbridge) is available to the contractor from June 2
    • From the above to the L1424 is to be made available on July 31
    • From the L1424 to the Adare interchange will be available from October 1

    Also, the old N21 from Patrickswell west is to become a continuation of the R526.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The 2.1km online upgrade is very straightforward. No significant earthworks bar some embankment widening. No structures. The fact that they're confident of getting it done within 18 months, including starting embankment works in January, is testament to how straightforward it is.

    Tie ins are generally completed last for good reason. There's no reason to interface an unopened motorway with the existing road network for a lengthy period of time before it opens. It makes logical sense to leave this work til last as it disrupts the existing road network for no benefit.

    I'm not questioning leaving the tie in til last. I'm questioning the decision making process that decided in 2023 that a 4 year timeframe to complete a relatively simple upgrade of an existing road was omitted due to apparent risk, but the same project is now being implemented on a 18 month timeframe, with two winters in that 18 months. The gung ho nature of this upgrade is likely going to add additional costs also, than had it been included in the Adare bypass contract as it rightly should have been.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Indeed. I don't think there's any risk of this not being finished on time, especially given how they are implementing it as you say and delivering the earthworks and 2 structures as advance works. Your 2nd point is pretty much asking what I was also asking.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    With those timings you'd think that it's almost guaranteed that Sisk will get the contract as they're already on site and won't need time to mobilise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Limerick74


    I’m sure the project team wanted to construct the M21 from the M20 tie in to Rathkeale for the original contract, but were prevented by a direction from the department to only advance the shortest length of bypass required for the Ryder Cup. Kudos to them for dealing with such constraints and interference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Without the Ryder Cup, there would have been no “shortest possible route” constraint at all. The possibility, no matter how small, of the existing N21 running at reduced capacity during September 2027 was what pulled the final link out of the project. It is, as @marno21 said, a relatively easy job to do, but if things went badly, the government did not want to have the only road from Limerick to Adare operating with a contraflow during the busiest traffic event of the year.

    Golf giveth; golf taketh away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Limerick74




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭pajoguy


    Check out O'Neills Heavy Haulage on Facebook for videos and pictures of Maigue River Crossing beams being transported.

    https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1BBEscF5BR/



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The Maigue River bridge has arrived (in 54 pieces). It is to be assembled over the course of April, May and June.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ricimaki




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 13,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Lots of progress in the few weeks since the last official video. Beams placed over the Greanagh River (the giant crane's gone) and beams also placed over the L-8024.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭MICKEYG


    Love how Dronehawk always has captions.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Looks like you could officially describe the gap as under construction from June 2 so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭Perfidious Cretin


    Having the bypass constructed without the tie in was an idiotic idea. Yes the bypass would take all the traffic out of Adare for the Ryder cup but you'd need to get through 3 roundabouts just to get onto the bypass if you were coming from the Limerick side. Imagine the absolute traffic chaos. It'd be backed up last Patrickswell..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Limerick74


    So by your logic, traffic joining a new motorway junction was going to cause significantly more traffic delays on the N21 than the same traffic travelling through the length of Adare Village?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I’m sure if 2025 had been catastrophic year for construction, and the project, with the tie in, was so badly delayed that there were contraflows all the way from Limerick into Adare for the golf thing, you would still maintain that position. Apt username, by the way.

    As it happened, 2025 was pretty much ideal conditions for building, and the project is now far enough ahead that there is no risk of disruption on any part of the route, so the tie-in will be built and open before the sacred golf weekend kicks off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭Perfidious Cretin


    Well you'd have all the normal day to day traffic but also an extra 60000 odd people trying to get into Adare by various means. I was simply saying it was a bit silly to not have the tie in, considering it's such a small section.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭lordleitrim




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭Pale Red


    All major sporting events have traffic jams. Day to day traffic takes account of these and avoids them - who goes to Thurles for a Sunday drive when theres a big match there. How do towns manage for the Ploughing? Proper taffic management mitigates the impact.

    Off topic golf logistics. Except the Sunday, there will be play on four holes (max) at a time. The 60k figure would suggest 10k per hole and another 10 at the hole about to be played next and 10 leapfrogging from the hole just finished to a hole later in the round. For easy maths we say each hole is 500 yards. That gives 1,000 of 'sidelines' per hole. Say a yard per person would mean ten deep (are you going to stand 10 deep from 50 to 250 when the tee shots are expected to be around 300).

    I think the 60k attendees is a grossly inflated figure. Possibly used by the people who are offering to let homes for 10k for the week (and they have the best website to get that money). 30k will still need proper traffic management even with tie in in place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭adaminho


    Considering the Pro-Am is usually sold out and holds 40k I don't see 60k a stretch when the K Club had 50k in 2006.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭Pale Red


    Pro-Am has more holes in play. KClub near Dublin for day trippers. There will be several tens of thousands and will require proper traffic management.



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