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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Agree on Timoney, he hasn't put a foot wrong and looks like a proper test player. He needs as much game time, and as many starts, as possible while keeping VDF firing and hungry. 7 is a position where we haven't had any depth until Timoney got involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    If the national team is coached & managed differently than a club side (and they all are) how do players improve in the eyes of the national coaching team if their club coach wants them to play in a certain way within a differing system.

    It's arguable that, for instance, Casey plays a more orthodox 9 role with his club than JGP plays with his club. Does the national coaching team bring a player into camp who plays in a widely differing style to the way they want to implement at national level ?. Or, does that matter ?. It would seem that with a smaller group of professionals in Ireland, the national coaches have less choice & thus need to have very adaptable players whose only opportunity to adapt comes at national camp. If players have persisting weaknesses at basic skills then keep then with their clubs, but imho developing national players is the role of the national side, not the clubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Interesting question you pose.

    Hypothetically speaking here

    Ange Capuozzo

    Would he get into the Irish team ahead of Keenan?

    I bet he wouldn’t. Even though he’s a superstar attacker.

    So what does a head coach do?

    Change his team philosophy to maximise the attacking genius at 15 or stick him at wing?

    Just trying to draw a line here between the talents of Casey & Doak.

    Neither are superstars in the Capuozzo sense and therefore you pick the player best suited to the teams style or role you want him to play.

    Post edited by HanShotFirst on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    He’s got a range of tone that he can bring to a game, from serious to whimsical. I think it adds to the drama.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    A lot of the commentary is on areas where we did well against England. What about the scrum? Admittedly, we looked better than we did against Italy but we’re still highly vulnerable. Is there anything encouraging to report or suggest?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Agreed, I think Timoney’s performances have been better than Doris’ at 7, so if he’s to be VdF’s backup building towards a RWC, I think he needs to start the game vs Wales.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 197 ✭✭longjohn200




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It's a funny one to get away with it as well as we did on Saturday. Maybe Ford's terrible touch finders off both the scrum penalties saved it becoming a much bigger issue. Can't imagine the scrum getting owned like that will end well very often.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    We were lucky. We could get into much deeper trouble if the ref got fixated on it. Some of the scrums against Italy were embarrassing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,792 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    After Jonny Sextons comments last week about having four 10’s in the squad then surely Harry Byrne would be entitled to feel disappointed if he doesn’t at least get a bench spot for Wales.

    I think people are placing far too much stock in a throwaway comment from a guy who doesn't even pick the team. I'd be very surprised if that comment was anything other than a way of cushioning the blow of Prendergast being cut from the 23.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭DBK1


    You could be right but even without that comment Harry Byrne would surely be disappointed still if he has been in camp all the time and doesn’t even get 20 mins off the bench against the perceived weakest team in the tournament. Especially considering his Leinster game time is on a par with Sam’s for the CC games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,073 ✭✭✭typhoony


    I dont think the style of coaching or systems at the provinces makes a lot of difference. A lot of blame for the poor form of the Leinster players in the National team seems to have gone the way of Nienaber so conversely after the England game maybe we should congratulate Nienaber for his contribution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I dont have the stat but I think there were at least 4 scrum penalties where our scrum was overwhelmed and it was both our front rows. Interesting to see how Wales and Scotland go after us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭Tommysocks11


    Have we any coach in ireland at all that can sort out our scrum, we are supposed to have a lions front row and big joe pushing them but we are getting minced in most games, our pack is as heavy as any so that's not issue, to me it seems like there's no will on the coaching side to fix it, against all blacks in world cup quarter final it cost us as porter was pinged at least 4 times, can we not sit down these props and hookers in a classroom setting and show them clips etc and then the IRFU sack fogarty and employ one of the world's best scrum coaches and maybe every few weeks during the season they get together with him for a day or two for coaching sessions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,155 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I’d imagine the scrum coaching at the provinces is more the issue. The international team isn’t together enough for that to be the foundation of a great scrum. It needs quality scrummagers making squads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 645 ✭✭✭CONSI


    we the lions front row and irish front row of furlong, porter and sheehan/kelleher not all at one province, could fogarty not step in their intermitently and work with them…if I'm honest I dont know what fogarty does in the irish set up..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Careful now!

    I would say "style of coaching or systems at the province" does make allot of difference when it comes to the national team.

    Just Look at Ulster and Look at Stu McCloskey, Baloucoune, Timoney, Izuchukwu. Doak getting into the squad (I think he should get 20mins v Wales). The Ward bros. ( I'd give Bryn mins v Wales and possibly even Zac). TOT even been asked to switch to LH!

    Also Cheika, Schmidt and Lancaster all had their own style of coaching and they left an indelible mark on the mindset and skills of the Irish players.

    To my mind the Irish head coaches job essentially boils down to 3 things:

    1. Pick the correct players (The hardest part of the job)
    2. Get the mood/mindset/vibe right. (The most underrated part of the job)
    3. Establish a style of play suited to your players.

    As for giving JN kudos for Twickenham - DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING!!

    Post edited by ionadnapóca on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    That's an important point well made. Leinster front row basically since 2019 RWC. Struggled in the scrum at Test level since Feek left in 2019.

    Fogarty has basically filled the gaping voids left by Feek both at Leinster and then Ireland.

    'He's like Papa Scrums to me' - Furlong



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭bingobango12


    The Connected to Camp bits they are releasing on YouTube are quite good. Particularly as they are quite closed off usually.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42 shinana abu


    As We have really the same weight or thereabouts as most international packs our coach has to be called into question…Feek had Ireland very competitive at scrum….



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    We're on our 4th choice LH, the worry on the scrum is a bit overstated



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Yeah weirdly the worry now is TH after being so bare at LH for years. ( Once everyone is fit obviously)

    Furlong is being dominated more than ever currently and Clarkson is still raw and we're not really sure if he can hold up a scrum at the top level. Could do with someone doing a Paddy McCarthy at TH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Our scrum was a shambles with our first choice LH. It’s not a result of injuries



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    That's on Porter's **** technique more than anything



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    I do think its a bit unfair to heap it all on Porter. I do agree in that he isnt helping himself with 'the pictures' (technique: elbow, angle)

    Sheehan has to shoulder a bit of the blame. As do the TH and Locks but mostly this is a coaching issue carried over from the provinces and we aren't seeing an improvement when they are with Ireland.

    Looking at the scrums v England. Genge getting away with murder (again) coming in on Furlong. Essentially getting away with what Porter is continually getting penalised for!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    In recent years Ireland have started the 6N very well compared to other teams before things level out towards the final round or 2.

    It was often pointed out that this was in large part because the sizable contingent from Leinster were used to playing together and the club vs country playing style weren't a million miles removed from each other.

    So it's perfectly logical to "blame" (he's responsible for winning games with Leinster only) JN for our lack lustre start this year as the 2 systems are no longer interchangeable.

    The return to form against England is probably due to time spent running reps of the AF system



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭mogwai81


    I'd love to see Porter move back to tighthead. His issues regarding the picture he shows (his bind & stepping out) would be removed from scrummaging at 3. It might force him to scrummage straight and use his huge power. He played at tighthead recently and said it felt easy but very taxing on the legs. He has huge stamina so I'd imagine he adjust fairly quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭almostover


    I dunno, what teams in this highly competitive championship are going to be playing 4 different no.10s in rotation across the 5 games? That's not a realistic expectation. Jack and Sam will share the minutes and rightly so. Better to have the 2 front runners dividing the playing responsibilities between them rather than diluting it across 4 players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭almostover


    I expect Wales to pick Nicky Smith at LHP and go after our scrum for the first 50-60 mins. They've played Rhys Carré in the last 2 games for his carrying but I expect that to change. Smith is a very good scrummager.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,054 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Harry is the only 10 to be sent back to his province. The chances of him being anywhere for Wales are slim and it just doesn't make sense. Jack and Sam are the two frontrunners and Frawley is the squad cover.



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