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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    i wouldn't like the idea of Crowley at 15 as he won't be there long term and needs a run at 10

    Interesting idea though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,842 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Osborne only went to 13 because Frawley was on the bench to cover FB.

    Frawley will be on the bench again, TOB in for Lowe and Stockdale to cover wing.

    In the unlikely event Ringrose is out, Osborne 13, Frawley 15, and Aki to the bench.

    I don't see Andy changing much after last weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,671 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    This would be a pretty terrible idea tbh.

    We took Wales a little lightly last year and nearly paid for it.

    Would like to see Edogbo and Ward involved but lets not go mental.

    Its probably quite important now to give JC a good run at 10



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,328 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    where is this need to shoehorn crowley in as a full back coming from?? its completely unnecessary in my view.

    so far over the last 3 games we have dropped 4 regular starters, given 5 players their 6 nations debut and given one player their full debut. All in a time of an injury crisis.

    i think we are doing excellent squad depth building already so far.

    Getting more minutes into Edogbo, TOB, Balou, C Prendergast and Izzy would be my goal for the next 2 games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Yeah it not going to happen moving JC to FB. Im just spit balling - Osborne is going to be needed for either the 13 or 12 or 23 jersey in the medium term when Keenan and Hansen come back.

    Plus it would be a sour note for SP to finish up on if he isn't given minutes in the Welsh game.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,344 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    Nah, as I said, I think there's more value in just letting Crowley get more gametime in the 10 shirt and keen bedding in partnerships.

    My team for Wales would be:

    (15-9,1-8):

    Osborne, Baloucoune, Ringrose, McCloskey, T O'Brien, Crowley, Gibson-Park, Loughman, Sheehan, Clarkson, Ryan, McCarthy, Beirne, van der Flier, Doris

    Reps: Kelleher, O'Toole, Furlong, Edogbo, B Ward, Timoney, Doak, Frawley

    Wouldn't be surprised to see one of Izuchukwu or C Prendergast there instead of Bryn Ward though.

    For Scotland, I'd be bringing Furlong back in to start, Conan back into the bench and rest on form.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,060 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I'd like to see Sam Prendergast getting 20 mins from the bench against a (hopefully) beaten Welsh team, and likewise for Edogbo, and presumably Conan will come in, so that would mean Cian Prendergast and Timoney missing out, which would be harsh particularly on Timoney.

    TOB presumably will start for Lowe and I hope I'm wrong but I suspect Aki will take TOB's place on the bench.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,671 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Barney Spender is the world's greatest commentator



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    Ok! Ok! Im not taking Wales too likely btw. The Welsh were arguably a better side last year. The starting Irish team would blow them off the park.

    Its a good team. I agree for JC; it would be better for him to keep going at 10. On the other hand, I dont think it would knock anything off of him to try him at FB.

    The bench though. I hope the days of 6/2 are gone! (7/2 I have a mental block when writing a bench with only 2 backs. I keep writing 7/2!!)

    The English match was the perfect example of why 5/3 suits Ireland far better. (23. TOB for Lowe)



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think his ban is still running for the Connacht game?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If Crowley goes down tomorrow Prendergast is going to come back in. On that basis alone I'd rather see him on the bench to get some minutes. We don't need a 6-2 against either Wales or Scotland and I really hoped the days of Frawley covering 10 were over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    was it not a 3 game ban?!


    4 game. Last one was England


    “Aki was handed with a six game ban, however two of those games were suspended, meaning he will miss Connacht's URC clash with Zebre, followed by Ireland's opening three Six Nations games against France, Italy and England.“



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ah I forgot the last URC game before the 6N



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Nobody is saying we should change the entire 23 for Wales. But not using this as an opportunity to give maybe Ward or Doak a debut off the bench, or Edogbo or Izzy some more exposure, or try someone else at 13, would be a massive missed opportunity imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,628 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Wales are a dogged team, but folks are reading too much into last year's game. We had player off for a decent chunk, and were playing poorly throughout the tournament as a whole. We can't continue to fail to use 6Ns games to build depth, especially a year out from the WC. We can field a very competitive team and make changes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,103 ✭✭✭DBK1


    I think both Milne and Stockdale must be feeling hard done by since the French game. Milne never put a foot wrong in his time on the pitch and Stockdale was asked to play a game that doesn’t suit his style. I’d like see both of them get a start with Stockdale at 15, move Osbourne to the centre and give Ringrose a rest.

    After Jonny Sextons comments last week about having four 10’s in the squad then surely Harry Byrne would be entitled to feel disappointed if he doesn’t at least get a bench spot for Wales.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Mod Edit

    Warning issued.

    Post edited by ShamoBuc on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,463 ✭✭✭crisco10


    its easily forgotten, but Balacoune (and McCloskey) started against SA in November 2022 in what was the then #1 ranked team v World Champs. It was the marquee fixture that Autumn. Farrell has rated Balacoune for years…His problem is that he averaged less than 10 games per season since turning pro.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Something we've seen this season is that players from the provinces other than Leinster are plenty capable of excelling at test level, but many have never played a European knockout; for Ulster its 7 years since they played in a 1/4, Munster haven't seen a semi in 6 years while Connacht are getting to knockouts only in the challenge cup. Using Europe as a measure for whether players are 'ready' is unrealistic given the performance of the provinces. But we can see form the Ulster lads that they're more than ready. I'm not disagreeing with eh observation about refining their game in green rather than at the club, but the Irish coaches do need to recognise that waiting for guys to perform a the highest level simply isn't happening for a lot of our players.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭almostover


    I'd make one change to your starting 15, Timoney for VdF. He has earned a start and 60 mins to show that he is the man to challenge VdF for the 7 jersey for the next 18 months.

    I'd rather see a 5/3 bench of Kelleher, Milne, Furlong, Edogbo, VdF, Casey, S. Prendergast, Stockdale.

    Bryn Ward will get his chance in the summer series of the nations cup, that's the competition to introduce him at this level. Not in a must win home 6N tie vs. Wales. I rate him very highly, I just think we need to pay Wales some respect and go with as strong a hand as we can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Agree on Timoney, he hasn't put a foot wrong and looks like a proper test player. He needs as much game time, and as many starts, as possible while keeping VDF firing and hungry. 7 is a position where we haven't had any depth until Timoney got involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    If the national team is coached & managed differently than a club side (and they all are) how do players improve in the eyes of the national coaching team if their club coach wants them to play in a certain way within a differing system.

    It's arguable that, for instance, Casey plays a more orthodox 9 role with his club than JGP plays with his club. Does the national coaching team bring a player into camp who plays in a widely differing style to the way they want to implement at national level ?. Or, does that matter ?. It would seem that with a smaller group of professionals in Ireland, the national coaches have less choice & thus need to have very adaptable players whose only opportunity to adapt comes at national camp. If players have persisting weaknesses at basic skills then keep then with their clubs, but imho developing national players is the role of the national side, not the clubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 904 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Interesting question you pose.

    Hypothetically speaking here

    Ange Capuozzo

    Would he get into the Irish team ahead of Keenan?

    I bet he wouldn’t. Even though he’s a superstar attacker.

    So what does a head coach do?

    Change his team philosophy to maximise the attacking genius at 15 or stick him at wing?

    Just trying to draw a line here between the talents of Casey & Doak.

    Neither are superstars in the Capuozzo sense and therefore you pick the player best suited to the teams style or role you want him to play.

    Post edited by HanShotFirst on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    He’s got a range of tone that he can bring to a game, from serious to whimsical. I think it adds to the drama.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    A lot of the commentary is on areas where we did well against England. What about the scrum? Admittedly, we looked better than we did against Italy but we’re still highly vulnerable. Is there anything encouraging to report or suggest?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,965 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Agreed, I think Timoney’s performances have been better than Doris’ at 7, so if he’s to be VdF’s backup building towards a RWC, I think he needs to start the game vs Wales.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭longjohn200




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It's a funny one to get away with it as well as we did on Saturday. Maybe Ford's terrible touch finders off both the scrum penalties saved it becoming a much bigger issue. Can't imagine the scrum getting owned like that will end well very often.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    We were lucky. We could get into much deeper trouble if the ref got fixated on it. Some of the scrums against Italy were embarrassing.



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