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A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 110 ✭✭DexterMorgansGhost


    That show really surprised me how enjoyable it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,128 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    That last episode was shocking, nothing to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,414 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    As with most series of GoT, the penultimate episode tends to be the one with the action, and the final episode is the aftermath and setting up what's to come.

    In that sense, we got quite a bit in this episode. The impact of Baelor's death beginning to ripple out and the impact it will have on the Targaryean dynasty, Lionel Baratheon showing he's likely not as loyal to the Targaryeans as he seems, Dunk is now showing he's capable of leaving Ser Arlyn behind and become a knight of his own making (along with possible confirmation that Ser Arlyn never knighted Dunk but also we still didn't see Ser Arlyn's actual death so maybe he did), Egg despising his brother so much he seemed willing to kill him as he slept, and also running away from his family to go travelling with Dunk as his squire.

    All in about 30 minutes.

    I really liked it. It worked well for all the characters, I thought Maeker's scenes in particular were fantastic, and it has a promising future. Last episode was probably the standout, but this was a good season finale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,674 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ya this was a typical final GoT finale. It had way more than the last episode half of which is just an extended fight scene.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭CiaranW


    I really enjoyed the series.

    Looking forward to more.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Yes me too, I really enjoyed it and I wasn’t sure I would (my o/h started watching it first and suggested we watch it together).

    I really liked it. I much preferred the final episode to the penultimate one - except I’m worried that now that Maekar will inevitably blame Dunk for “kidnapping” Egg.

    Definitely up for a second season though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,959 ✭✭✭Evade


    I'm pretty sure Maekar knows who the brains of the operation is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Yes of course but that won’t matter in that society. They all knew that Duncan wasn't guilty of kidnapping Egg first time round yet were still going ahead with finding him guilty, before he demanded a trial by combat against Aerion, even before it became a Trial by 7.

    The point being that the lower classes will always be crushed by the upper. And that the knights’ so-called honour is all about personal pride, not genuine ethics or morality. So logically there is no way anyone but Dunk can be punished. And he will be. Someone has to be punished for disobeying Maekar’s order, and it won’t be Egg. Or at least that won’t be enough to assuage Maekor’s rage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,674 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 shinnerbot09


    Agreed , After the hights of GOT and lows of house of dragons this is a pleasant surprise



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,407 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Well I thought it was a much better episode than the last one, half of which consisted of a dreadful flashback.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,877 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Two noteworth changes from the books: Egg leaving with Dunk without Maekar's blessing and Raymund Fossaway starting the Green Apple Fossaway branch with, what is almost the female version of Dunk (a prostitute pretending to be a lady). I'm not sure if the latter will have any impact later in the series or wider world of GoT spin offs… the former though will have a major impact unless Season 2 has an episode where Maekar catches up to the pair of adventurers and bestows his blessing otherwise:

    Egg's boot will be missing the ring he needs to trigger the finale of The Mystery Knight



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,996 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    It was one of the two charges. Daeron alleged that he kidnapped Egg.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Exactly. Duncan was guilty of the other charge, since he had attacked Prince Aerion after Aerion broke the puppeteer girl’s finger, hence not relevant to my point.

    I didn’t bother replying to the post because there’s no point in encouraging attention seekers like that sad poster who has clearly developed an obsession with me and follows me around the place trying desperately to find reasons to disagree with me, even over TV shows. 😴



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    That’s interesting as it’s the part of the ending that seems to me to be setting Duncan up for disaster. If it didn’t happen that way in the books that makes more sense - but I wonder how (for the TV series) a man like Maekar can credibly be brought to accept a decision made against his express orders, and moreover where his humiliation will have been seen by all as he searches for his son, so that there’s no way to save face. Or at least I can’t think of one. Even if he saves someone important from death I’m not sure that would be enough to cancel out Maekar’s rage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,877 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Yep, definitely appears to be leading the story in a slightly different direction. I'm not worried though, I've enjoyed the little additions they've made to the story and, thinking about it, it might not actually matter for a while and can be written around easily enough…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Exactly. Duncan was guilty of the other charge, since he had attacked Prince Aerion after Aerion broke the puppeteer girl’s finger, hence not relevant to my point.

    Saying he was guilty of that charge is forgetting some pretty key contect.
    Aerion assaulted the puppeteer initially, Dunk was defended her, as a knight is "supposed" to. It's intentionally written as a legal/moral grey area.
    If Dunk was actually guilty, there's no way Baelor would have defended him publicly like he did.

    Sure, it was one of two charges. But the trial by combat/seven proceeding was entirely Aerion's decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    The latter wasn't isn't a change per se. It wasn't in the original, but nothing to the contrary was that I recall. To be honest it's believable given his a poor cousin.

    Regarding your spoiler, I think you're skipping too far ahead.

    There's a long time between the trial and The Mystery Knight. They aren't away the entire time. There's an off page visit to Oldtown, where there meet a well familiar "old" character from GoT. Would make sense that S2 is that gap between the two Novella's.

    There's a pretty east solution that's consistent with the original. Don't want to say too much. As I suspect S2 will follow that line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    If they can deliver six episode seasons of that quality each year, I'll mark my calendar and count down the days happily.

    This thing is there is source material here, and it's widely consider one of the best stories in the canon. This season was a very close adaption. Season 1 of GoT was also great, and almost a 1:1 adaption. The early seasons of GoT were good, and stuck close to the was source material.

    There's 3 Duck and Egg novellas. The next two could easily be a season each. But run's out quickly, and the writers have to start winging it. And even worse, next season probably needs to be a new store to get to novella 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Yes I know it's a grey area, but my point was that I had mentioned only one of the two charges, not because I didn't know there were two, but because there's only one of which he was clearly innocent in such a hierarchical society where a low-born man, even a knight, attacking a high-born aristocrat was pretty much unforgivable no matter what the reason, never mind in the defence of a mere female puppeteer.

    So yes of course he could try to make a case that he was "not guilty because morally obliged" to attack Aerion - but that requires some dangerous casting of aspersions on Aerion's character - or maybe "guilty but mitigating circs", which is not a lot better, but all of that is irrelevant to my original point.

    Moreover I'd expect that if he'd had a legal investigation, rather than a combat to determine guilt, he'd have had the problem of not being able to prove that he had actually been knighted by Ser Arlen. And that's assuming that he really is a knight, which we don't know yet. (Maybe you do, since you've read the books, but I don't.)

    Either way, he can't prove it, so his supposed moral obligation to attack Aerion as he did is on very thin ice.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    …attacking a high-born aristocrat was pretty much unforgivable no matter what the reason, never mind in the defence of a mere female puppeteer.

    Except he was forgiven, by the heir to the throne no less. It was Balor who suggested trial by combat after all.

    That's a far cry from saying (as a viewer) that he was actually guilty.

    So yes of course he could try to make a case that he was "not guilty because morally obliged" to attack Aerion - but that requires some dangerous casting of aspersions on Aerion's characte - or maybe "guilty but mitigating circs", which is not a lot better, but all of that is irrelevant to my original point.

    That's literally literally how it played out.

    That's the point, it was all about Aerion's incidient. The kidnapping was tacked on. Has it been that alone, there's no way Darion pressed the accusation to trial (by combat).

    Moreover I'd expect that if he'd had a legal investigation, rather than a combat to determine guilt, he'd have had the problem of not being able to prove that he had actually been knighted by Ser Arlen. And that's assuming that he really is a knight, which we don't know yet. (Maybe you do, since you've read the books, but I don't.)
    Either way, he can't prove it, so his supposed moral obligation to attack Aerion as he did is on very thin ice.

    Readers/Viewers know he might have a hard time proving it. But that's unlikely to be relevant.

    A) Having to prove you are a knight is not a thing. There's no records of who knighted who. Many people are knighted before/after battle. So the the person who could verify is often, dead. A knight is not be reputation, being seen to compete a knight in jousts, association with a lord, etc.

    B) I was referring to your post where you said he was guilty. I'm saying that not the case, it's intentionally grey.
    Whether he could prove it is entirely different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,016 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    You're confusing the position of viewer in the 21st century, and the characters within the narrative.

    I don't know what you think you're proving by continuing to insist but I suspect it's not what's actually coming across about you here.

    Have at it, I really don't care enough to continue this tedious exchange.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    You're confusing the position of viewer in the 21st century

    I clearly referred your view/post from the start. Abd the grey area.
    It’s not about proving anything. It’s a discussion thread. For discussing the show…

    it's not what's actually coming across about you here.

    I won’t respond to this. The irony says enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭Beachcomber1097


    Having watched the show from start to finish in quick succession again and having read the books in the last week.

    I was happy that it stuck for the most part to the book; some changes made were good while others that were left out were not so good, as they really set the stage for the next series.

    [noparse]

    Maeker decides in the books to meet with Dunk and speak about Egg, it happened at night and at the camp in the books, with Dunk saying very simialr that he said in the series, but Maeker left in what seemed a fit. The next morning Egg is back with Dunk, seemingly a blessing as he has a signet ring in his boot now in case he ever needs to prove who he is, which helps in book 3. The book version of Maeker seems to acknowledge that his other kids are not great and maybe Egg would be better off learning the knight's code. This harks back a bit to words with Baelor about a knights vows and the kingdom needing good men.

    [/noparse]



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Seems like not too long ago when I was asking about Peter Claffey in the Connacht rugby thread. Life takes many strange turns, some for the better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,202 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    For the lower downs anything regional will do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Casting confirms that S2 will take a similar direction to the second novella.
    Meaning Maekar issues you mention will resolve themselves, likely in a better fashion that the book, in episode 1 or 2. Then it'll be on to Tywins granny



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