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President Connolly

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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: stop backseat modding!

    In addition, you are critical for others discussing anything but Connolly (including her interaction with Campbell) but try and sneak other topics for discussion in including you thinking people should have been extradited from the RoI.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    If they are a visiting head of state they should have least have a tiny bit of balance in what they say. instead of trying to rewrite history. To listen to Connolly you would think Bloody Friday were the only killings ever in Derry, what about the other over 200? If she complains about justice, what about the killings committed by some from our own jurisdiction, who sheltered here in the Republic and who were not extradited? Who were not punished and never will be punished?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And only those who normally use 'Derry' are being intentionally insulting. Never those like Campbell who exclusively use Londonderry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,575 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Your argument is nonsensical. It implies that every single time somebody talks about violence in the north they have to both sides it. So if it's a memorial of Bloody Sunday, they have to bring up people killed by republicans. If it's a Remembrance Day bombing memorial, they'll have to bring up people killed by loyalists.

    If they talk to somebody who had relatives killed by the IRA they have to say something like "yes, that's awful. But let's not forget that there were people killed by the UDA too".

    It's ridiculous. This was 1 visit in what will be a 7 year term. If in 7 years there have been multiple visits to the North and each time she only talks about nationalists who were killed then you might be onto something. But you can't take something in isolation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,801 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Did you just say those killings took place in Derry? You didn't mention Londonderry at all.

    Disgraceful carry on Campbell would be disgusted.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    I usually call it Derry because I am from the Republic. However I do acknowledge there is a community in that place, call it stroke city if you want, who like it being called by its official name, Londonderry, sometimes. When Connolly was asked by Campbell about the decimation of protestants in the west of the city, had she anything to say? No. The only victims she cared about were the 50 familes she met, none of whom were victims of Republicanism. She spoke about UK justice for those from Bloody Sunday: do you think Connolly would ever THINK about, never mind speak about, the Irish justice system which did not always extradite Republicans wanted for murder in N.I.?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,575 ✭✭✭creedp


    Neither do I, nor do so own or brandish a Union Jack. You”d probably be horrified on behalf of poor old Campbell on that attrosity also. Such a bowl of shite this argument has become.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    Nobody mentioned owning or brandishing a Union jack. I doubt if Connolly was even allowed see one on her visit to that part of the UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,219 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What an embarrassing and childlike post BB. Read it back to yourself. There is zero substance or argument in it, just more of the vague "we predicted it". Nobody knows what you are talking about but you are intent on dying on this hill that you have created for yourself. You should have waited until you had something substantive to criticise your president about but you have now shot your credibility bow. Your defence of Campbell is exemplary though, would he chance the next Aras race?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I am wondering where all the negative press is for the President. The overwhelming consensus seems to be that the visit was a success.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,742 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    i think you are just “overly sensitive” on this issue. Given your background it is unsurprising. Only seeing one side as the “right” one. To me as a broader observer it is more nuanced. In fact to me the love of theatrical symbolism and hyper awareness of place names etc. Binds the two traditions in NI/Ulster together.

    I always think the two traditions have more in common with each other than the larger attachment they wish to “belong” to; be it the UK or the ROi.

    Because there is a heightened sense of self and need to show identity in NI/Ulster. They have to either try and have the symbolism of being either “more Irish” than the ROI or “more British” than the UK.

    It all ends up being pedantic symbolism: in sporting terms to me. The mindset on both far sides is like the player “throwing shapes” but is ultimately ineffective in practical terms.

    In other words performative politics, is the preferred politics in NI. On the two main divides. It is easy for me to see because I stand back from it, and observe. Comical a lot of it is. No sincerity to it.

    But you are correct on one thing which we agree on, Connolly handled it well.

    However, in my view she needs to be hyper aware of the importance of performative politics in a place like NI. The likes of PBP in the ROI have it off to an art form

    If I was her I would study them. Plus study SF NI as opposed to SF ROI (different approaches with policy and approach with the electorate).

    And of course study the DUP etc. Make note of all the sound bites and what exercises the NI electorate.

    Then she might sprinkle in a bit of symbolism the next time she travels “up there”. But in a manner that understands, rather than give an opening to show her lack of awareness of the NI bubble.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    In my experience, most people in NI call it Derry, it is really only those who want to take offence at the word Derry that don't.
    Now, just to be clear, my experience also involved living & working out of Derry for a couple of years amongst other things.
    But yeah, because a renowned bigot took offence at the use of the word, it is as if some expect Connolly to stand down 🙄 While I didn't vote for her, I believe that she didn't do anything wrong despite your constant accusations.

    I will also point out that you are still discussing Campbell despite your statement "This thread is about Connolly, not about anyone else."

    As for your ignorant comment about the victims of Bloody Sunday - there is a clear difference between those victims and the victims of IRA or Loyalist violence - maybe sit down and think what it might be but as a hint it has something to do with the British armed forces killing its own citizens who were at peacefully protesting for civil rights 🙄

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Dear me.

    The upshot of all your patronising is - it's Connolly needs to change.
    Did it ever occur to you that you are a part of a self deprecating Irish cohort or tradition who cannot stand up for themselves because they are paralysed by inferiority? Which was a key component of what colonisation tried to instil and achieve. It clearly has generational effects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,742 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I didn’t say Connolly needs to change per se. She can easily get better. Is my point.

    The politics of NI is utterly predictable - simple-minded. Connolly an intelligent calm woman. She can easily perform even better in that scenario (in future) if she observes the theatre on both sides.

    I am not self deprecating Irish . I merely view NI Republicanism as closer to Orish-American pub stuff without the light hearted fun element. Nasty edge to some of it, after you scratch the surface. Just as the with the other side some have a bit of nasty edge.

    NI Republicans have to normalise to fit it to the ROI. Different electorate more discerning in the ROI. Less theatrical focused. I can see it slowly happening.

    That to me is just political observation. Not condescending nor self deprecating Irish.

    Connolly’s problem being from Galway she is unaware of that NI bubble on both sides. Not just one. It was an education for her.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,807 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    Here is our President with Lord William Hay of the DUP. They apparently got on very well.

    Your posts on this topic are beyond embarrassing.

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Republicans from the north are no different from those in the south.

    You cannot see the self deprecation obviously you are so used to falling in to it. The President was ambushed by a racist, homophobic bigot intent in getting a reaction. She didn't provide it and does not need to change her behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    That's an interesting suggestion, but not necessarily true.

    In the past it was often said that the unionists were loyal to the half-crown rather than to the crown - given the way Britain has been tearing itself apart internally over the last decade or more, some of the half-crown loyalty could very easily shift towards the Euro. Those who find the tricolour distasteful of course won't make that shift, but plenty will be willing to put a peg on their noses if their bread is sufficiently buttered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    I can easily imagine one of his acolytes saying to Gregory :

    "Hie Greg, when yu war in Darry thar the other day, yu really stuck it to that Connolly B over Lunnundry"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,575 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Guys, she's standing next to a lambeg drum, but she didn't also stand next to any other type of drum. So she's ignoring the other communities of drummers. Disgusting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭adaminho


    Don't most of them now have Irish passports since Brexit?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There are two types of Unionist, the moderate Unionist who, while they wish to stay in the UK for now, has no issues with their Irishness, Passports etc and who accepts a majority will decide. Then you have the Campbell, Allister Bryson belligerent brand of Unionism. The moderate is far more common.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    I have seen you use the word "belligerent" on several occasions. Can you explain the context and meaning of the usage.

    In my opinion, it generally represents violent behaviour, at the very least aggressive behaviour. Unionism is a defensive ideology, seeing themselves as defending the realm. That really isn't belligerence as it is generally understood.

    It might, more correctly, be applied to those who saw the actions of the PIRA as necessary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    = Hostile and aggressive.

    Belligerent Unionists are hostile and aggressive to anything Irish - anything they deem as interference from the Irish government (even though the GFA accepts and provides for the role of the Irish government) hostile to equality, and Irish culture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭JohnDoe2025


    Yes, you definitely have it the wrong way round. If you described them as incredibly defensive, that would be true, but they are not aggressors, and they haven't been the aggressors in the North over the last century. They have a classic defensive posture.

    It is a strange kind of agenda to label them as belligerent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Defending?

    Yeh, defending what they had for most of the last century, a bigoted sectarian statelet with a veto.

    Still aggressively trying to invoke that veto by use of mechanisms not designed for it (call ins and Petitions of Concern) and reminding all and sundry whose country they are in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,511 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    image.png

    I can't access the article in full but it's not hard to see what the view is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,742 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It’s not self depreciating when if like me you view that subset on this island as “other” . A side who once viewed the administration in the ROI in recent history as “legitimate targets” and that is just the Republican side!

    The supposed side who like all the theatre and bells and whistles of Irishness but yet murder their own. The special brand NI republicanism doesn’t represent me (nor people like me) never has never will. That is the truth of it. Yet they now want to be part of the Republic as if the previous years were just.a misunderstanding. Or worse necessary.

    Different mindsets - they are hyper sensitive over identity. I am very relaxed in mine. You get a few working class areas in Dublin etc with identity insecurities. But they latch on to republicanism to mask their own inadequacies in life. Making them feel important. That is as near as it gets outside NI. Identity wise. The reasons are slightly different.


    NI Republicanism is a very distinct flavour to even other Republicanism. There is a real hardened edge to it. And it ironically is also an acquired taste like the Protestant drink - Guinness.

    It is why (dare I say) NI is so “foreign” to someone like Connolly.the mindsets (on all sides) are different shaped by years of conflict. What is viewed as “normal” behaviour in NI is either a mixture of odd/laughable/even sinister in the majority of the ROI.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭itsacoolday


    They funded her election campaign in more ways than one. He who plays the piper plays the tune. Shure did'nt we see her meeting 50 families who were victims of violence, all cherry picked by S,F., all from the nationalist/republican community. None from the protestant/unionist/loyalist community.

    Ain't no such thing as a free dinner.



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