Sixth Generation Fighter Development

banie01 · 30-01-2026 11:23PM

The USN's Chief of Naval Ops is adamant that FA-XX is essential to securing the future of viable USN counter-air and deep strike operations.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/us-chief-naval-ops-funding-faxx-vital

banie01 · 05-02-2026 08:58PM

The political wrangling between Airbus and Dassault has just gotten a lot more interesting.
Italy have responded to a German request for information and an opinion on being able to join GCAP.
Apparently the request was direct from Merz to Meloni.
If? and it is still a big if at this point, Germany switches to GCAP?
The UK, Italy and Japan will only do so on the basis that the German's dont hold a sales veto as they do with Eurofighter.

https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/italy-opens-gcap-fighter-programme-to-germany.html

https://twitter.com/CiroNappi6/status/2019352729714585952?s=20

GCAP always IMHO has made far more sense for Germany as it more closely aligns with what their use case and requirements are.
The French will aim for a 6th gen fighter that they can utilise much as they do Rafale, which means weight and airframe dimensions always designed with an eye on Carrier compatibility.
The hard limits of an aircraft elevator can be danced around via folding wings (think particularly of the F4K as modified for the British carriers).
But those limits dont matter to German or indeed Spanish requirements.
Range and carrying capacity for both nations should outweigh the need of the Fench to try and equip the AdA and MN with a single air frame again.

Lorddrakul · 12-02-2026 09:35AM

Even more disquiet on the fighter jet front.

A European fighter-jet partnership is verging on a break-up https://www.economist.com/europe/2026/02/11/a-european-fighter-jet-partnership-is-verging-on-a-break-up

banie01 · 13-02-2026 01:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124228742#Comment_124228742

There seems to be an effort now to build 2 different FCAS airframes with shared systems and engines as a means to overcome the current impasse.
It gives the French the freedom to build a Rafale replacement that more fits their need.
It allows Germany & Spain the freedom to pursue what will IMO be a larger Airframe more optimised for strike & long range (It will IMHO fill the same niche as GCAP in terms of range and throw weight).

It will be a European solution that allows both aircraft proceed under a single label, pushing it as a "system of systems" rather than risk highlighting what has been the truth of every Franco/Anyone joint military aircraft since the Jaguar.
That since Dassault became the sole French fighter manufacturer?
That they don't want joint projects without it being completely under their control.

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/fcas_fighter_may_split_into_two_jets_airbus_boss_backs_plan_to_save_deadlocked_project-17333.html

https://ecfr.eu/article/the-trouble-with-fcas-why-europes-fighter-jet-project-is-not-taking-off/

Manic Moran · 14-02-2026 05:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124185577#Comment_124185577

I wouldn’t be so sure. There is a weight of opinion that the program is really CG(X) Mk2 under a Trump-friendly name. Wouldn’t be the first time a ship had its designation changed after the conceptual design process.

Lorddrakul · 20-02-2026 03:26PM

Interesting story here with a possible hints…

Pratt & Whitney Shows F-47-Like Fighter in Latest XA103 Adaptive Engine Video

Pratt & Whitney shared a new video about the XA103 engine, which includes a computer-generated rendition of an F-47-inspired design. However, it is exactly that: nothing more than a notional aircraft.

On Feb. 18, 2026, Pratt & Whitney shared, a new video about the XA103 being developed for the Next Generation Adaptive Propulsion (NGAP) program. The program, which sees P&W competing against General Electric, is notably developing the engine which will power the Boeing F-47, the winner of the competition for the U.S. Air Force’s Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) manned fighter.

Full story on The Aviationist

banie01 · 20-02-2026 05:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124251499#Comment_124251499

i look at those pics and the video and all I can see?
Is the infamous Testor F19 with it's Fins deleted 🤔
Is it just me?

banie01 · 23-02-2026 03:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123386506#Comment_123386506

A bit of confirmation bias on my part no doubt 😉
It's always nice to have someone agree with you even if it is a year late.
An interesting essay from Heatloss on why the Su75 will never happen.

https://hushkit.substack.com/p/stalemate-why-the-sukhoi-su-75-was?open=false

banie01 · 24-02-2026 05:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124150242#Comment_124150242

It seems the penny has dropped in India regarding the potential opportunity that German unhappiness with France/Dassault's effort to ensure they have full control of FCAS may present them.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/from-rafale-to-fcas-why-indiagen-jet-program/?amp

According to media reports, initial talks have been held on India’s possible entry into the program launched in 2017 by France, Germany, and Spain.
Notably, over the last eight years, little progress has been made on FCAS, owing to fundamental differences among partner nations on leadership, workshare, and the aircraft’s basic design parameters, to the point that there is a high likelihood that France and Germany will break the alliance and go their separate ways.
This is where India fits in, as designing and developing a sixth-generation fighter jet alone would be a costly and high-risk proposition for France.
Partnering with India will not only generate additional funds for the FCAS program but, given the Indian Air Force’s large size and need for hundreds of aircraft in the coming years, it will also secure a large fleet order for the under-development fighter, bringing down its production costs substantially.

Lorddrakul · 25-02-2026 02:36PM

It would be no bad thing if there were two next gen fighter projects in Europe, if they can be funded.

cnocbui · 25-02-2026 03:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124262452#Comment_124262452

I am on France's side in this. They have stuck to their guns on autonomy from US shitbaggery and history has vindicated them in every possible way.

They make the much sought after Rafale and it's Spectrum ECM/stealth package that reportedly comprises 40% of the plane's cost. Germany's contribution is potentially mostly just money and manufacturing capacity. You'd think their recent aviation efforts were on par with Dassault's, the way they are carrying on, when they aren't.

If I were the UK I wouldn't want them joining the Tempest program as they would likely want to dictate terms, just as they have been doing with FCAS.

Probably best for both programs if Germany butts out and just buys finished product.

Given the necessary security angle, I doubt Dassault would seriously involve india. They can't be trusted on any level.

cnocbui · 25-02-2026 03:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124251499#Comment_124251499

Just the other day I was remarking to someone on the difference between US fighter jet design and European. The Rafale, Eurofighter and Gripen are all Mirage derivatives with a delta wing plus canards. US designs are swept thin wings with vertical axis control surfaces at the rear.

Looks like the US is adopting the European format. Burt Rutan was so far ahead of his time.

banie01 · 25-02-2026 03:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124264445#Comment_124264445

Germany needs an industrial workshare or offset to be able to credibly sell FCAS to the Bundestag as a collaborative project.
Yes, France has reams of experience in operationalizing new equipment and fighters but Germany has the capital that France needs to push the project forward and they feel that their input is worth more than France are offering.

As I said a couple of months ago, given India's decision to go all in on more Rafale and the long standing relationship with France and Dassault.
I believe that India is the "funding" partner France needs to pursue FCAS alone.

India's alignment with France as a Rafale operator for both AF and Navy, guarantee the French a near perfect captive customer for whatever they come up with as FCAS.

Germany, well given they want a different aircraft in terms of weight, range and capabilities than FCAS?
Similar to why France left Eurofighter in the 80s.
Their options are go down the 2 track FCAS route as already being floated.
2 airframes, but common system of engines, sensors, avionics and drones.
Join GCAP and accept being a junior partner their given how long UK, Italy and Japan have been engaged and on how much tech they are sharing.
Or, and this is a wildcard option but not to be quickly dismissed.
Partner with Sweden/SAAB and work to bring their 6th gen concepts into service.
I'd think the SAAB concept of a system of systems would also align well with German needs.

As for what France would share with India and the security concerns inherent?
A lot will revolve around how forthcoming India has been with France in sharing the PAF radar signatures and PL15 data gained last May IMHO.
France cannot afford to develop and manufacture a 6th gen alone.
India has a desperate need for modern fighters and mass, particularly given another Tejas has had an "accident" this week.
HAL are being cut out of the Indian 5th Gen programme, their is a pivot to private industry already seeing Safran & Dassault engage in joint enterprises there.

The balance of French strategic autonomy and joint production with India?
Is the surest way that France can afford to develop and control FCAS and it's IP.
If the French are happy to give India Rafale F4 and SPECTRA in current deals?
They will also be happy to do same with FCAS.

banie01 · 25-02-2026 03:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124264487#Comment_124264487

The US adopting delta and (possibly) rhomboidal wings with canards is also a function of their placing range as an important consideration IMO.
They need an Airframe with the maximum possible internal volume, that doesn't carry a drag penalty and can offer v.good supersonic performance.
The fuel fraction becomes a prime factor in their design consideration.
Couple that with inherent instability as a design factor and manoeuvrability can be maintained and even improved v gen 5.

The Delta/Rhomboid offers the user a large usable volume with a minimal drag penalty and also keeps internal fuel possibility at maximum.

The range requirement of the F47 could be met by a conventional design, like (let's ignore LO requirements for a moment) a scaled up F15 but it would be massive.

It's an example of convergent design, much like the Chinese 6th Gens, and as far as the 5th Gens go, even accounting for the F35 data hack, the similarities of the J20, F35, KAAN, Boramae all sharing common features and similarities.

Designers facing the same problems, find similar answers.

The proposed Delta GCAP is already a big bird but it would be longer and wider if it adopted a conventional design aswell as facing a more difficult path to LO.

The use of the canard allows better use of unstable design and pitch moment to improve manoeuvrability and for the US especially, with thrust vectoring will be an immensely manoeuvrable bird.

Agree with you that Rutan was a genius, he was the 1st to lay out a design scheme that meets the current and future operational needs as near can be.

A genuine concern I have in the acceleration of multi-polarity?
Is how likely any of the proposed new European & US designs are to enter service before a wider conflict breaks out.
If/When that conflict comes?
How quickly can production of existing designs be ramped up?
For existing designs in that situation, how quickly can supply lines be made less vulnerable to supply shock?

cnocbui · 25-02-2026 04:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124264507#Comment_124264507

Sharing with India is the same as sharing with the Orcs. I think a different partner will be found.

Lorddrakul · 25-02-2026 04:30PM

I think the critical thing is that Europe needs a cooperative effort on engines to ensure full independence from the US.

A consortium of RR, Snecma, Volvo Aero, and a few others to develop some true indigenous designs for 6th gen and beyond would be a basis for a true independent aerospace design capability.

banie01 · 25-02-2026 04:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124264684#Comment_124264684

The French already share with them, they have done for decades.
India currently operates Rafale F3R, and will upgrade those to F4.
If the 114 Rafale deal is signed?
At least the final 24 will be of the proposed F5 variant, the "super" Rafale.
Spectra and RBE radar are already in Indian service alongside Sukhoi and MiG as is the Meteor AAM.
All bleeding edge Franco-European security tech.
The French seem satisfied with whatever safeguards they have in place with India.

The importance (and rightly so) that the French place on Strategic Autonomy requires a huge capital investment to bring FCAS into service.
The Indians are facing serious issues with an inability to actually competently procure anything.
Their Aircraft development efforts are all stalled and the calculus points to it being far more beneficial for them to partner with France if the opportunity presents, than it does to carry as is.

France are happy for India to operate it's current latest and greatest and given the importance of exports to France and Dassault?
It would be incredibly naive to think that they wouldn't sell FCAS to same range of countries that already operate Rafale.

dinorebel · 19-03-2026 09:58AM

https://www.aviacionline.com/english/defence/india-weighs-joining-europe-s-next-gen-fighter-programs-gcap-or-fcas-_a69bb607d2a95660dd2c67103

India weighing up it's options FCAS probably the favourite because of the existing relationship with Dassault.

cnocbui · 20-03-2026 06:22PM

I love this quote by a US senator:

"The F-35 was the national-security establishment going through a midlife crisis and purchasing a Ferrari,”

Germany is doing something interesting; giving up on 6th gen and using stealth drones operated by Eurofighters. They plan to replace the US control system with one made by Airbus.

Its the XQ-58 Valkyrie

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/airbus-valkyrie-first-flights-germany-combat-drone

banie01 · 21-03-2026 01:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124323776#Comment_124323776

Its going to be FCAS, I laid out my logic as to why earlier in the thread.
Germany may well try and salvage something via a partnership with SAAB but given their need for a large workshare?
I just don't see them joining GCAP even if it fits their need better than current French preferrwd FCAS configuration.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124327615#Comment_124327615

Surely the Germans won't make the error of falling into a US supplier trap?
They'll have to ensure full licensing of the airframe and at least they are ensuring a degree of autonomy via the software.

One would hope that with Europe's broad experience of high performance LO drones such as Taranis, Neuron & Airbus' own wingman drone that sufficient European options are available.
Even a look at Kilzelma might be worthwhile rather than buying American at this point.

cnocbui · 21-03-2026 02:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124329416#Comment_124329416

Well the original German reason for throwing their toys out of the FCAS pram was that they wanted to stay wedded to the US and compatible with US kit in NATO. Clearly it might have been a ruse to muscle a greater share of the work their way, but it's what they said, so no, I don't think Germany has learned the autonomy lesson at all. France doesn't want to accommodate Germany's requirements because they would necessitate info sharing with the US and possibly US veto over FCAS systems.

I am squarely on Frances side on this one, Germany are being dicks and clearly think Krasnov is just a temporary glitch and that letting the US in on FCAS isn't a problem. They don't mind if France has to give up their foresighted and proven principles on autonomy and share with the US, after all, it's Dassaults loss, not theirs.

GCAP would be mad to let Germany onboard, they are spoilers.

Leonidas BL · 02-04-2026 07:06PM

GCAP advances as Edgewing lands first joint contract from partner nations

thomil · 02-04-2026 07:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124329416#Comment_124329416

The F-35A is a bit of a procurement peculiarity for Germany. It’s being bought for one purpose only: The delivery of US B61 free-fall nuclear weapons provided to Germany under NATO’s “Nuclear Sharing” policy. Currently, this mission, together with electronic warfare & SEAD, is handled by Germany’s remaining Tornado squadrons, but the Tornado is end of life and in dire need of replacement. The original plan was to hand over all of those roles to a new combined F/A-18 E/F and EA-18G order in somewhat higher numbers. The only issue was that the Super Hornet, being a navy platform, wasn’t certified to drop the B61, which is a USAF weapon.

When Olaf Scholz became chancellor, the order was split. The EW & SEAD roles were to be handled by a dedicated new Eurofighter model. My understanding is that he wanted the Eurofighter to become a nuclear weapons carrier as well, but the US refused to play ball. Hence the pivot to the F-35A which, as a USAF platform, is already nuclear weapons capable.

There is of course also Germany’s order for 8 P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, but to be honest, that was always going to go to Boeing. The German Navy’s 2nd hand P-3 Orions were falling apart and the MPA version of the A321 is a paper tiger at the moment. The P-8 was the only realistic option.

banie01 · 02-04-2026 08:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124359316#Comment_124359316

The politics and practicalities around the German F35-A buy really are interesting.
You of course would know the internals there far better than I.
A level of Byzantine intrigue I rarely contemplate when I think of German defence procurement (Naive I know).

The necessity for a B61 capable airframe is obvious and pressing.
The US weren't going to certify Eurofighter for the role, no matter how much money Germany put on the table IMO, the US aim was always to sell more F35s.
Similarly to the delay in Meteor integration for the RAF & Italian F35-Bs now being pushed back from 2027 to 2032 (at the earliest).
Couple that delay with the TR4 delays and it will be even later again before it enters service.
All the while the Americans will happily sell both Air Forces (& Luftwaffe) AIM-120D to fill the gap.
It's another effort by the US to ensure that Lockheed and Raytheon continue to have a captive market.

I did see that UK & France have signed an MOU for developing the Meteor follow on, that platform will be optimised for both GCAP and FCAS internal storage as well as likely to be qualified for KF21 ,Gripen, Rafale and Eurofighter..
Serious competition for the AIM260 too as that has yet to have any trials for F35 integration as of yet.

I don't know that I'd wholly agree with the reasoning behind the P8 buy.
It's certainly the most capable currently airframe, but the condition of the P3s.
The P3 were only recently overhauled(well I say recent, when they were Dutch they had the MLU)
Granted not to the complete rebuild that was originally planned but there was life and capability still left in the airframe.
The Portuguese were very happy to buy the Orion's and all the support and training gear for service there for the foreseeable.

That said, Airbus have certainlyissed an opportunity in developing and marketing an A320/1 based MPA.

thomil · 02-04-2026 08:35PM

Portugal is better able to handle the P-3. They’ve been operating the type since the 1980s and have the industrial base to support this in the shape of OGMA, a manufacturing and maintenance plant at Alverca air base outside Lisbon. Germany got their P-3s second hand from the Netherlands in 2006, having had no experience at all with that type before. The existing fleet of Breguet Br.1150 Atlantic MPAs was getting on in years and was proving insufficient for the newly enhanced mission spectrum of the Marineflieger, Germany’s own fleet air arm, having been designed only for ASW work, with no capability for more general maritime patrol tasks, unlike the P-3.

So the P-3s were bought in as a stopgap, originally meant to fill the role until a new Franco-German maritime patrol aircraft becomes available. Well, nothing’s as permanent as a stopgap as we say in Germany, and with that new MPA nowhere to be seen even twenty years later, as well as reduced availability due to lack of spare parts and other technical issues, the decision was made to stop mucking around with second hand airframes and instead get a brand new top-of-the-line aircraft. I know that Germany looked at European alternatives, including the Airbus C295MPA and an MPA version of the ATR 72, but ultimately, these were too small, short range, and/or short endurance for their needs, hence the decision to go for the P-8 Poseidon.

Lorddrakul · 15-04-2026 09:40AM

Canada Is Planning to Join the GCAP Sixth-Gen Fighter Program

Canada’s interest in the GCAP program could amount to a rebuke of the United States, which has urged Ottawa to purchase the fifth-generation F-35 and sixth-generation F-47 systems instead.

The Royal Canadian Air Force’s (RCAF’s) acquisition of the F-35 Lightning II fighter jet has been in question for some time, with Ottawa reviewing its options. President Donald Trump’s periodic calls to annex Canada as the 51st state haven’t helped matters, and the RCAF may yet opt to back out of its adoption of the fifth-generation stealth fighter entirely.

Instead, Canada could be an operator of a European-made sixth-generation manned fighter—specifically the aircraft now under development as part of the UK-led Global Combat Air Program (GCAP), alongside Italy and Japan. Canada would enter the program as an observer at the outset, meaning that it would receive “selected confidential information” from the core partners “without committing to full participation,” Air Data News reported.

However, this would open the door to greater Canadian involvement in GCAP. The sixth-gen fighter program seeks to have a demonstrator begin flight testing next year, with full-scale production slated to begin by 2031. The goal of the GCAP program is to field replacements for the aging European Eurofighter Typhoon and Japanese Mitsubishi F-2 fleets now in service.

Canada had sought to acquire the F-35 to replace its CF-18 fighters, a domestic variant of the McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet in the 1980s.

Given the enormous costs of the project, Canada’s entry would be welcome, as it could provide additional procurement funding and industrial capabilities. It would also provide additional opportunities for Canadian aerospace firms to participate in the program’s research and development (R&D).

As with other sixth-generation aircraft efforts, GCAP ultimately entails more than a single aircraft, and its optionally manned multirole fighter is on track to be supported by unmanned aerial systems (UAS).

How Soon Could Canada Become an Observer in GCAP?

Any Canadian involvement in GCAP is still in its infancy. Yet, a formal announcement could be made as soon as July, when the defense ministers of the core members are slated to meet in the United Kingdom, where they are likely to review progress to date.

Last month, Japanese Minister Shinjiro Koizumi and Canadian Minister David McGuinty met in Tokyo, where the groundwork was laid for Canada’s entry as an observer.

Adding a member will help share costs and ensure greater interoperability with allied forces. Canada, Italy, and the UK are all members of NATO, and each has maintained close ties with Japan.

Full story on NationalInterest.org

An interesting counter weight to India, and likely to be a significant funding support.

banie01 · 01-06-2026 07:53PM

The Indian Government has at long last issued the Letter Of Request for the 114 Rafale fighters that has been their only real option for quite a while now.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/defence/news/big-update-in-rafale-deal-india-begins-process-to-procure-114-jets-for-rs-3-25-lakh-crore/articleshow/131444796.cms

This has far broader implications for India's future force structure.
If, as seems to be the way the cookie is crumbling, Airbus pull out of the current FCAS structure?
India will IMHO be the partner brought on board by Dassault for both Rafale F5 R&D funding and as a partner in a Dassault led FCAS project.
India are France's "ideal" FCAS partner, their alignment on both land and carrier based airframes means that an immediate economic critical mass is available with the benefits of economies of scale.
It also immediately offsets the UAE's decision to pull Rafale F5 development funding.

Airbus and SAAB are rumoured to be exploring alternatives to both FCAS and potential GCAP membership.
The Germans & Swedes are a better alignment and it gets away from the size restriction inherent in France wanting the FCAS to be carrier compatible.
That said, 3 concurrent 6th Gen fighter programmes within Europe?
Is a waste of resources that needs to be addressed.

https://www.twz.com/air/airbus-looks-to-swedens-saab-as-europes-sixth-gen-fighter-plans-unravel

banie01 · 04-06-2026 04:37PM

A ghost hunting group that has being spending time pointing it's cameras skywards in Nevada claims to have captured some interesting footage.
Video to be released tmrw, but?
Could this be the F47?

https://twitter.com/i/status/2061900806660694159

Lorddrakul · 04-06-2026 09:12PM

Could well be.

It is certainly consistent with what has been telegraphed thus far.

banie01 · 05-06-2026 08:44PM

The video has been released.
The aircraft is very reminiscent of the X36 with some Bird of Prey aspects in the apparent dihedral.
I'm not 100% convinced it's genuine but I am leaning towards it being so.
Perhaps it's a "Y" series of the F47 or even FA-XX?
Skip the waffle and go to the video of aircraft from about 50:30.

https://youtu.be/hxcZW-nDJlM?si=wgBhnfke53SIfBC6

Sixth Generation Fighter Development

Comments

Canada’s interest in the GCAP program could amount to a rebuke of the United States, which has urged Ottawa to purchase the fifth-generation F-35 and sixth-generation F-47 systems instead.

How Soon Could Canada Become an Observer in GCAP?