Sixth Generation Fighter Development

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123712140#Comment_123712140

And yet they still can't select a decent M4 replacement 🤌

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123713317#Comment_123713317

In fairness the M4 evolved over a very long time and it's ancestors weren't trouble free.

Lorddrakul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123713207#Comment_123713207

The F-35 was only every supposed to be a replacement for certain aspects of the Navy mission, not all of it.

There is still a naval requirement for pure air superiority, and the F-35 is not it.

The F/A-XX will start with the air superiority and then work in the attack aspects, but only after air to air, interception/interdiction and fleet defence are catered for. Hence the grumbling.

The F-47 does not sound like it would easily adapt to not only carrier operations, but the rest of the naval mission envelope.

banie01

Some photos via Reddit of the GCAP mock-up on display at the London DSEI 2025 arms exhibition. It gives some idea of the size of the proposed fighter. Taking the fence panels at 2.3mtrs, it gives a probable length of at least 20mtrs. I can't really make out a frame of reference for the wingspan but the expectation is for 17mtrs.

A big auld beast that will likely have a massive fuel fraction for the range the consortium is after.

Lorddrakul

Can't quite see, is this the delta wing version?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123809018#Comment_123809018

It is, there seems to be a growing consensus that GCAP will be a delta rather than the rhomboid wing.
Personally, I dont know which it will be but, I do think given the importance of range to Japan & UK that it will be the delta or a very slight rhomboid.
It offers the most volume for fuel along advantages for wing loading, stealth shaping and altitude performance.
There is a lot of speculation that the fuel fraction for GCAP will be about 0.35 and perhaps as high as 0.40 on a par with the MiG31.

Theres also a growing suggestion that GCAP may not be designed with supercruise in mind, due to the difficulty inherent in masking IR at that speed.
So that fuel fraction would equate to even more range or time on station.
The PIRATE sensor already in use on Eurofighter has demonstrated capability against F22 at range and it would seem that GCAP is focused on broadband and multispectrum LO, so whilst Supersonic is part and parcel of the design and necessary for a lot of missions and launch profiles, supercruise as a normal SOP may well be out.

The UK and Japan certainly need that range for their proposed use case and it would fit more with the platform being a long range strike and SEAD/DEAD asset than a pure Air Superiority fighter.
The potential range on offer should also be of interest to Australia and their use case, esp with the idea floated a few years ago that the B21 would suit their needs better than the AUKUS subs.
It would also give Italy an aircraft capable of covering the entire Med from Italian bases without A2A refuelling.
If they can leverage BAe experience with LO to give a good broadband stealth platform far exceeding F35.

I think it might have been Bill Sweetman who described the potential final layout of GCAP as a modern Vulcan.
The Delta will give good 1 turn performance but that it won't be a pure "fighter", that its a A2A performance will very much rely on 1st look, 1st shot built around sensor performance and fusion as well missile performance (Meteor NG and so on).
Versus the F22 interpretation of that philosophy which also placed manueverability and performance at prime.

Lorddrakul

I love the analogy of a modern Vulcan!

That's a good observation of the more multi role nature rather than our pure superiority.

Though, I must say I get somewhat sceptical when I read those headlines that say dogfighting is dead. How many times have we heard that, only to find it isn't true.

I think recent geopolitical events have made design goals diverge, so rather than accept the philosophy that defines the capabilities of export packages, nations this side of the pond are looking to their own needs and goals.

It should produce an interesting batch of aircraft.

Manic Moran

Honestly, it didn’t seem that huge to me when I was next to it (and climbing the platform). I mean, it’s not an F16, but we’re not talking Tomcat levels here either.

The thing was pure shape, the cockpit didn’t even have painted squares to represent panels.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123832848#Comment_123832848

It's on a par length wise with the Tomcat and as the design evolves it might grow longer still.
The main differences of course being the stealth shaping and the effort to ensure that in addition to internal weapons storage is the importance the consortium is placing on internal and fuel fraction.

The F22 has a fuel fraction of about 29% for an 1100km combat radius, and F35A has approx a 38% fuel fraction for a combat radius of 1400km.

Borrowing from a post over on secret aircraft forum, and the publicly available info on GCAP the Japanese in particular want a combat radius of 2200km, that's absolutely massive. It will require excellent aerodynamics, supreme engine efficiency and in order to ensure optimum stealth with minimum need for external fuel, a huge internal fuel volume. Light weight airframe and integral tanks will help but it is going to be carrying a massive amount of fuel with a fraction above 40% at a minimum IMHO.

banie01

In what is a very welcome development as far as the USN and it's position as the tip of the spear in the Pacific is concerned.
It looks increasingly likely that FA-XX will proceed and that down selection will be imminent.

https://www.twz.com/air/navy-f-a-xx-stealth-fighter-selection-imminent-reports

https://www.twz.com/air/navy-f-a-xx-stealth-fighter-selection-imminent-reports

https://twitter.com/ColbyBadhwar/status/1975636170454540530?s=19

I won't make any predictions as to the "winner" but Northrop Grumman leadership have said...

https://twitter.com/beverstine/status/1971658153239748874?s=19