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Ev saving verses diesel

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    No disrespect to your friends, but it's simply an outdated mindset - albeit one held by many. With the amount of FUD floating around - including in this thread - it's no wonder many people are still in turtle mode regarding EVs.



  • Administrators Posts: 56,321 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Shouldn't cost of ownership be factored in here if you are tying to work out which is cheaper to run? Depreciation etc are costs of ownership.

    It feels pretty pointless to just compare the price of a litre of diesel/petrol vs a unit of electricity and compare ranges.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it's an interesting topic - people warned me about depreciation when i told them i was shopping for an EV (i was buying secondhand so was actually benefitting from it, in that sense).

    but yeah, someone buying new a year or two ago would likely be stung on depreciation. what about someone buying new now and considering what the value of the car could be in four or five years time? it's certainly not beyond the bounds of possibility that no-one will want a secondhand diesel then, that EVs are the choice du jour, and that today's diesel buyer could be the one losing out then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,057 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    What % of EVs have 500+kms of range "all year around". What % of people do 500+ on a regular basis. Or ever.

    These forums are always dominated by people discussing at the newest and greatest tech with the most outlier use cases.

    I acknowledge just because someone infrequently drives to the alps or Donegal to Wexford non stop. Its still valid use case for them.

    Range anxiety or charging anxiety is still a thing and people might choose never to have it. They don't want to get used to it.

    I've an older short ranged EV 150-250km winter/summer but I've rarely needed to public charge. Rarely leave Dublin. I drive flat out with everything on. Range isn't an issue for me.

    But you're still very aware of the range. Done Dublin Kerry no issues. But there are a lot of rural places in Ireland where there still aren't a lot of chargers. It would only take a problem at one or two chargers to cause problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,672 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Often when depreciation is added to these conversations, some posters choose to compare 10 year old diesels with new EVs. And things just go downhill from there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,864 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    If everyone bought an EV in the next 12 months (new or second hand) the infrastructure to support (charge) them would fall apart (I reckon), whether it's at home or public. The capacity isn't there unless under specific circumstances.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,186 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    but they wont so that's not a sensible argument, nor will everyone retrofit heat pumps in the next 12 months, doesnt mean we shouldnt be moving in that general direction though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,864 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    It's a sensible argument to back up the rationale that we need far better electricial infrastructure to both provide for far more public charging points and better support home charging. I think both current owners and future owners of EV's would agree with this surely?



  • Administrators Posts: 56,321 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Sure, but it is still a factor.

    Like, if your motivation is to sell off your diesel and move to an EV to save 3k a year in fuel costs, but you're paying 5k a year for the car and that's not even including the depreciation then you obviously haven't saved anything, your cost of motoring has gone up significantly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭wildwillow


    It is difficult to make comparisons because everyone's situation is different. I would drive an EV if it suited my particular needs.

    I do a 625km round trip one day a week with a three hour stopover. I make a very early start so not happy stopping when places are very quiet. No charging facility there. I am not willing to stop on the way and add at least 30 minutes to the journey. I usually do non-stop each way or stop for a few minutes break and drink from flask. It is mostly motorway so travelling at 120.

    When my children were small and we did the same journey over two days, I made stops on the way to give them a break but I am usually well rested and find driving enjoyable. The journey is not possible by public transport.

    Otherwise the car sometimes doesn't move for days. I walk and cycle locally where possible.

    If I were in a two car family I would definitely use an EV as the second car.

    I often wonder do people factor in the cost of stopping to recharge, as in the coffee break and perhaps the fast food or chocolate muffins required to stave off boredom?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,672 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Is it a trip to see granny/grandad? Is it possible to get a charger installed there? You'd recover the installation cost within a year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,186 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    we do but its not a limiting factor to you or me buying an EV tmrw, at least if you can home charge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 50 ✭✭ddcluracan


    For your use case that's fine and perfectly logical.

    As for the "I often wonder do people factor in the cost of stopping to recharge, as in the coffee break and perhaps the fast food or chocolate muffins required to stave off boredom?" question. 96% of my charging is done at home so it's not an issue. On the occasions when I do public charge, well the Tesla sites I have used weren't near a service station. However I must admit on the service station sites I have partaken of snacks and refreshment. But I also did when I was filling up with Diesel.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it does beg the question; how many people would drive more than, say, 200km or 300km a day more than a few times a year?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 50 ✭✭ddcluracan


    Absolutely agree, a resilient electric infrastructure is needed ASAP. I personally despair at the lack of movement and innovation in this aspect. I once did a back of an envelope calculation. What would it cost to supply 250,000 homes with a 5KW rooftop solar system + battery?. It would cost just under 2 billion euro to achieve 1.25GW of electricity to the grid. Industrial level Solar farms would cost 1.5 - 1.9 Billion and a Natural Gas power station would be 1.4 Billion for the same result (1.25GW). But they would never be built because of planning issues and objections. But imagine if every house had a solar/wind system with a battery when the next Storm Eowyn came for example? Who would refuse solar panels on their roof and lower their electric bill?

    Of course there are many flaws with my calculations, but my point is why aren't there more ideas like this? Ireland should be looking to make itself as energy independent as much as possible.

    Sorry, this is going off topic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Aaah..the old chestnut. According to many diesel drivers it's almost everyone.

    Drinking from a flask….I've actually heard it all now.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 18,203 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Agreed.

    The difference however is that the ICE car inherently has decent range to begin with, whereas the EV doesn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,672 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Last year I drove 400-500km one day every weekend.
    Over the summer:

    • 10 days 500-1000km
    • 5 days 1000-1400km
    • 2 days 1400km+


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    that wasn't my question unfortunately; my question was how many people actually do it, not who here does it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,057 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,672 ✭✭✭✭josip


    You've gotten 1 reply to the question you asked. So that's 1 out of 1 so far 🙂



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i read somewhere that the average irish car does 16,000km per year - but i suspect repmobiles pull that average up a bit.

    anyway, if that was the true average, it's 44km a day if averaged out over the week, or 62km a day in a scenario where it was used five days a week. two hours charging a night should easily cover the second scenario, and some cars would manage the first scenario on one hour of charging a night.

    obviously it'd be a rare driver whose driving is that consistent over the year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,057 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    75% have off street parking. Houses already have the infrastructure to charge. A socket.

    It's not like everyone goes to the petrol station at the same time either.

    The capacity you're imagining isn't required. Even Norway which started down this road in 1990s it's national fleet (old and new cars on the road) is only 30% fully electric.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 55,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭wildwillow


    No its to a nursing home and I can never see them being able to install a charger. It fairly rural and the nearest charger is miles away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,057 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So I think we can agree hypothetical scenarios of overnight switch to EV across Ireland ain't happening.

    You might as well ask what if everyone had a flying car tomorrow would their be enough landing pads



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,254 ✭✭✭Neowise


    Shouldn't need pads for a good vtol flying car, but it's probably too windy to fly tomorrow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Dayor Knight


    Pollution, health impacts and burning of fossil fuels ...it's not just about the financial savings. Even if the costs are similar, there are reasons to go EV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,803 ✭✭✭✭User1998


    I have to charge on day rate so don't really make any savings over diesel particularly in the Winter when consumption is high. I just rather drive an EV over petrol/diesel.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,266 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not by much, certainly doesn't feel like much of a difference in the driver's seat



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