Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

bikeman1 · 01-02-2026 07:17PM

We have to be careful that “perfection is the enemy of good” doesn’t happen here.

If there needs to be monthly two night suspension of service early and start late to maintain I think we could all live with that. But not running an automated service when the demand is there on other nights is not acceptable.

Kermit.de.frog · 01-02-2026 07:23PM

Yes that is a positive.

Do we know what the operational hours would be or do we not have that detail yet?

bk · 01-02-2026 07:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124198526#Comment_124198526

That isn’t going to happen, there is far more maintenance happening then would fit in just one or two nights a month!

Best you could hope for is 24/7 at the weekends with maintenance happening during week nights. That is how London Underground operates as an example.

It isn’t about being automated or not (though it does make it more financially feasible) it is about the amount of maintenance work that needs to happen and staff safety who are doing that work.

bk · 01-02-2026 07:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124198549#Comment_124198549

Per Metrolink docs, 5:30 am to 12:30 am, 7 days a week

I think the best we could perhaps push for is 24/7 weekends.

Kermit.de.frog · 01-02-2026 07:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124198584#Comment_124198584

That should be OK for particularly the north American arrivals at DUB at least. Doesn't seem too bad. Maybe they'll be able to do something about the weekends.

bikeman1 · 01-02-2026 08:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124198553#Comment_124198553

Sorry bk, my original comment on this was service to finish Sunday - Wednesday nights at 00:30. I’m fully behind that. I’m talking about 1 weekend as required every month or two to have a longer closure to facilitate greater maintenance, like what happens on the railway network.

However, we need the rest of the time to be aiming for an 04:30 arrival at the airport or slightly before, every night, with a 24 hour service Thursday to Saturday nights.

murphaph · 01-02-2026 08:31PM

If ML can't get people to DUB for the first wave of departures, the busiest wave of the day, then I wouldn't be suprised if, in the distant future, we revisit a Clongriffin Spur or extending Luas Finglas to the airport or perhaps even both to provide alternate ways to get to the airport early in the morning. The various systems could "take turns" at operating the "4am shift" to provide a rail based connection.

Cookiemunster · 01-02-2026 09:01PM

Why all the talk about the airport? As we all know it's not a metro to the airport, it's a metro that happens to have a stop at the airport. That's a plus point, not it's raison d'etre.

riddlinrussell · 01-02-2026 10:25PM

Because it has a very atypical usage pattern compared to many/most other trip generators on metro lines and as such may warrant a re-examination of the service pattern to account for that?

Regardless, Copenhagen is obviously not a suitable comparison. How do places like LHR, CDG service staff and first wave of flights? Can we achieve similar and still do effective maintenance?

Pete_Cavan · 02-02-2026 08:59AM

Can't they just put a partition in the tunnel to separate the lines? Simple floor to ceiling box section struts and perspex in between to a height of c.2m with a small gap at the bottom (~100mm or whatever is required not to affect ventilation and air flow).

Obviously there'd be no partition at cross-overs and openings if required to access escape stairs. Operate one side each night rotating, reduce services down to half hourly or whatever is operable on a single track, any service is better than nothing.

murphaph · 02-02-2026 09:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124198962#Comment_124198962

Berlin has a 24/7 service connecting Berlin Hbf with BER. The Flughafenexpress (FEX) is a heavy rail, double deck train with luggage racks that runs every 15 minutes during the day and every 30 minutes in the middle of the night. BER has a night time flight ban which is highly restrictive. The very first flight is at 6am and the last flight is supposed to land by 10pm. Nevertheless, the airport is reachable with the FEX all night. Other trains service the airport too like other regional services, some intercity ones and the S-Bahn during the day. The U7 might be extended to reach the aiport too. It should be noted that DUB is a much busier airport than BER and has significantly more destinations. To get out into the world from BER more often than not involves transfering at MUC, FRA, ZRH or VIE on a Lufthansa group flight because BER is considered no more important to the LH group than say Hamburg or Stuttgart, provincial airports. Nevertheless, BER is connected 24/7 with the city by rail so it's a shame if DUB won't be connected 24/7 with the city by rail.

murphaph · 02-02-2026 09:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124199399#Comment_124199399

That's sort of what I was suggesting above with a simple fence between the running lines but I'm not sure the loading gauge would allow for it. I'd be happy to be wrong.

loco_scolo · 02-02-2026 10:00AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124199399#Comment_124199399

I think this is beyond the capabilities of human ingenuity, don't be ridiculous!

It would be completely unacceptable, IMHO, if our brand spanking shiny new fully automated Metro didn't operate 24/7 "at least" on the weekends. Holy God!!

bk · 02-02-2026 11:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124198670#Comment_124198670

My apologies, I totally miss read you, I agree completely.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124199410#Comment_124199410

I’d also be delighted to be wrong, but looking at the tunnel cross sections on the Metrolink docs, but the tunnel space is incredibly tight and I doubt it could fit.

bk · 02-02-2026 11:53AM

In particular the second picture shows how I don’t think it would be possible to put a divider, though I’d love to be wrong.

bk · 02-02-2026 12:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124198805#Comment_124198805

While totally true, I do think the airport generates a type of night time transport demand that is unique. Also keeping in mind that many of the staff working at the airport tend to live in Swords or North Dublin, so they could use Metrolink to access the airport.

I’d also point to the Mater hospital, along with near by Temple St and Rotunda hospitals also being late night traffic generators.

And of course you would simply have people living in Swords, etc. and working in the City Center on shift work, etc.

josip · 02-02-2026 12:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124199399#Comment_124199399

That perspex divider would become an additional unacceptable risk in the tunnel I suspect. A lot more potential for some part of it to come loose due to massively increased air pressure, and cause a derailment.

Podge_irl · 02-02-2026 01:33PM

I suspect it would be a massive issue for potential emergency evacuation also.

salmocab · 02-02-2026 01:43PM

don’t see a divider going in. It’s an extra point of failure which infrastructure is always keen to avoid. I think it’s most likely we will not have 24 hour running but would be hopeful it could run quite early and 24 hour as needed if demand was there over periods.

murphaph · 02-02-2026 01:53PM

Looking at those cross section diagrams I think we can safely say no permanent divider could be installed.

Sam Russell · 02-02-2026 02:45PM

The port tunnel closes for maintenance every month, if my memory is correct. How do we manage? And what do they do during the closure?

Could buses, coaches, car parks not cover the maintenance closures? Would a closure be required every night, or perhaps an hour a night might suffice, with longer closures as required?

A bigger issue would be a single failure shutting the whole system down - like a derailed train as happened in Spain. Have they designed turnaround zones to cover for such things?

Just a personal view, but we could postpone this discussion perhaps until after the boring bit starts in earnest, and detailed plans are made public.

bk · 02-02-2026 03:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124200012#Comment_124200012

The detailed plans have already been made available, those are all in the Railway Order.

The only unanswered question is how many nights a week worth of maintenance do they actually require? All 7 nights or can they get away with just 5 nights a week like London Underground, etc.

I agree that it isn’t the end of the world, that buses should be able to fill the gap overnight, but sufficient bus services need to be put in place, which the NTA certainly haven’t done yet (see full 41’s skipping stops overnight).

I think the route is busy enough for BRT’s to run Swords - Airport - City overnight, would give you extra capacity without needing extra bus drivers, but that of course is a conversation for a different thread.

BTW yes there are multiple cross over points along the route, so potentially they could continue to operate even if there was a failure on some parts of the route.

Sam Russell · 02-02-2026 05:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124200119#Comment_124200119

Look, it will be nearly a decade before the service starts so plenty of time to see what will be needed.

The route is in two parts - Swords to Airport then to the Depot - and then Depot to the CC and onto Charlemont. So at least that allows two schedules for maintenance, and perhaps the second section might be possible to divide as well.

Let us hope the TBM gets launched in the next year or so. I have no idea if the project can be speeded up much.

bk · 02-02-2026 06:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124200355#Comment_124200355

Unfortunately the time to see what will be needed was a few years ago when they were designing Metrolink.

Initially they were looking to use dual bore, but switched to single bore to save money. I understand why, but unfortunately one of the downsides of such a design is the 24/7/365 day operation won’t be possible.

At best we might get weekend operation if possible.

The separate tunnels won’t help that much, either the city tunnel will be closed or the airport tunnel will be closed overnight, so that means city to airport travel won’t be possible overnight. Though Swords to Airport might sometimes be possible.

To be clear I’m not for a moment suggesting we delay Metrolink or redesign it or anything mad like that! It is what it is and we just have to live with it now. As you say we all hope it just starts construction as soon as possible

Sam Russell · 02-02-2026 08:47PM

It would surprise me if the metro, an automatic line, needed the level of maintenance being suggested. Now, the trains are maintained in the depot, I assume. An in service breakdown is not maintenance so we can exclude that.

So what maintenance is required to the tracks and o/h wires? Do they need to maintain the substations with the power off?

Surely, the initial service might need significant teething troubles sorting, but that should not be permanent. So how regular should this maintenance service be required?

Does the London Dockland LR require this level of shutdowns? Or the Paris Metro automated lines?

orangerhyme · 02-02-2026 08:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124200355#Comment_124200355

Impossible to speed up I imagine.

Maybe tender and procurement will might be a little faster than expected.

I don't see the big need in a 24 hour service but I guess it's nice to have the option.

Zebra3 · 02-02-2026 09:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124200801#Comment_124200801

Everything that has high usage needs maintenance.

Even simple factory production lines need scheduled maintenance and will also fail from time to time when expected to run without issue.

A public transit line would be that plus x fold.

salmocab · 02-02-2026 10:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124200801#Comment_124200801

lots of ongoing maintenance. There’s huge amounts of systems that need constant maintenance especially in harsh environments. The physical tunnel, tracks and power lines would only be part of it. There’s multiple safety systems, systems for controlling the trains and communications up and down the lines.

Sam Russell · 02-02-2026 10:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124201005#Comment_124201005

Maintenance is important, but is it required every night, or twice a week, or once a month?

What is the history of other automatic metros in Europe, and in particular Copenhagen, Paris, and other cities that operate similar metros.

Just saying metros need regular maintenance but not metric as to how much is not useful to determine whether 24 hour running is possible, or for how many nights.

Another issue is security on the night shift.

Podge_irl · 02-02-2026 11:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124201092#Comment_124201092

Maintenance is probably required once a month or something, but you can't do the whole line in 3 hours. You have to do small sections each night.

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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