Israel/Palestine Thread

Regulars here will recall the constant pushback on the numbers of dead reported by news agencies because "they're Hamas numbers and so must be false" etc.

Of course, that the number were produced by the Hamas Health Ministry and had been verified by multiple reputable agencies as reasonably correct over time was simply waved away with the usual "but Hamas" argument.

To put that old Canard to bed once and for all, here's the IDF confirming they accept the numbers:

Haaretz:

The IDF has accepted the estimate of the Hamas-run Health Ministry that approximately 71,000 Palestinians were killed during the war, noting that the number does not include missing people who are potentially buried under rubble, and that it is currently analyzing the data to see how many of the dead were combatants.

Throughout the Gazan offensive, it was clear from day one that Alleged War Criminal #1 (still at large) couldn't give two figs about the hostages. In fact, it was clear that not getting them back suited the overall goals of the campaign - raze Gaza, cleanse remaining Palestinians then annex it. Rinse and repeat for the West Bank (bar the razing bit of course - though demolishing homes continues apace).

The last remaining hostage - Ran Gvili - has finally been recovered. The IDF have occupied Gaza for over two years now. As far as I recall, they were only instrumental in the release of a handful of the hostages. They have however killed quite a few more - those that succumbed to the aerial attacks and shelling and those surrendering hostage (three of them) who were executed by their fellow citizens as they desperately tried to surrender.

What is interesting is what was said at the White House Cabinet meeting today:

Haaretz:

At a White House cabinet meeting, U.S. President Trump credited Hamas as "a big factor" in the recovery of the remains of Ran Gvili, who was the last remaining Israeli hostage in Gaza, adding that the expectation now is that Hamas will fully disarm and demilitarize

Seems Israelis have a choice later this year in throwing out a murderous Govt. who could not even look after its own - yet could exterminate over 50,000 women and children (plus medics, humanitarian aid workers and journalists).

True to form - the IDF says it "will investigate". True to form, I suspect no report will ever be issued, no-one will be arrested and certainly no-one will be prosecuted. That only seems to happen to Palestinians.

Haaretz:

Settlers torched houses in the Bedouin community of Mikhmas, an activist who was at the scene told Haaretz, adding that no one was wounded because residents decided to spend the night in a nearby village due to frequent settler attacks in the area recently. The IDF said Israeli forces who arrived at the scene identified signs of arson and that the incident will be investigated.

God forbid he did admit Israel was involved:

OHCHR reported the use of "exploding pagers" as follows: “Such attacks could constitute war crimes of murder, attacking civilians, and launching indiscriminate attacks, in addition to violating the right to life,” the experts said.

God knows how many arrest warrants the ICC would have served for War Crimes. It would certainly upset the summer hollybop plans for many Israelis…

Yes, they do allege that there's a multi-faceted genocide with the IDF and Israeli government as 2 of the 3 perpetrators. To be fair, they also level allegations against Hamas.

I'm not sure how they expect Israel to destroy Hamas without bad things happening to civilians, and I wonder what they'd have said about Operation Meetinghouse if they had existed during previous conflicts.

Admittedly though, I have yet to read both reports in full.

There is a lot of detail in that material to digest but I think one of the comments appended to the Dropsitenews report sums it all up:

"Why not just call them Ghettos?"

I think Israel has sunk to depths the world has not seen in 80 years. I know many Israelis are utterly disgusted at the actions of its Govt., the IDF, its President and senior politicians of the far right persuasion. They need to vote with their feet later this year or I believe Israel will pass the point of no return. Apart from what has been perpetrated in Gaza, events in the West Bank are escalating. There is clear evidence that Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed and murdered both by the IDF and Settlers. And with the complete support of the State. It's another Genocide in the making.

Of course, Israel cares little - regularly denouncing UN resolutions, ignoring ICJ directives and breaching humanitarian law regularly - all with impunity and tacit support of many other governments.

It's not too late for Israelis to step back from the brink. With support and encouragement from non Israelis who are equally horrified and disgusted, they can turf out the current regime.

We already know the reaction when Israelis are killed. The massacre of circa 1200 two years ago led to apoplectic rage (quite rightly).

That the IDF was directly responsible for killing scores of Israelis in that day has been consistently waved away. Seems the IDF can do no wrong - how anyone can view such an organisation in a positive light given all the corroborated atrocities they have committed is beyond comprehension. Whilst of course Hamas are to be utterly condemned for what they did, do are the IDF and others in power.

There is something very wrong when on the one hand, the stance is "civilians die in war" but it's tumbleweed when the perpetrating State is only apoplectic that a video was leaked of its armed forces sodomising a prisoner with an iron bar. Not arresting the suspects, not charging them, not prosecuting them.

But here's the thing, the message is consistent - there is full throated support of all the war crimes, the genocide, the ethnic cleansing and the complete flouting of international law.

But when a park in Dublin is suggested as being renamed, Ireland and others pull out of Eurovision and Jews are murdered abroad, we're back to apoplectic rage. And yes, you're right, the murder of Jews is not hand-waved away - again, quite rightly.

But what is pooh poohed and waved away is the extermination of 50,000 innocent women and children.

That is just wrong. Totally wrong.

I wonder if people who think like that also deny the Holocaust? I doubt it. But they've no problem denying the Gaza Genocide or twisting themselves into knots with the whataboutery.

No, their minds are made up and they are not for turning. It's remarkably similar to what's going on in the US at the moment - plenty of people see no issue with law enforcement simply killing people for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

History will be the judge though and the collective memory is a very long one. Many will totally be on the wrong side and will hang their heads in shame like many did 80 years ago. Or maybe they won't. Then it'll be the 9th circle of hell for them.

I wonder what position holds as regards the killing of journalists? Presumably #1 at least over the last two years.

I see from your link that Israel is joint second with Egypt in the torture and beating of prisoners. Iran is #1.

I think the notion of Israel bearing any similarity to typical western democracies is long gone. If they're second only to china, Myanmar and Iran, I'd imagine they'll remain in that position for a long time.

Of course, they continue the Hasbara and extol themselves as democratic and with the most moral army in the world.

But we all know the truth.