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Dynamic Pricing Tariffs

12346

Comments

  • #152
    Busman Paddy Lasty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,672 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Extended from October 2025 deadline.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #153
    SD_DRACULA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124165704#Comment_124165704

    Not to us it wouldn't 😂

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #154
    JayBee66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 375 ✭✭JayBee66


    Let me approach this from a different direction so that I squeeze all the collective knowledge out of this thread.

    I have 5kW of battery with little chance of expansion in the near future.

    From October 1st to April 1st, I charge the battery between 1:00AM and 16:50PM. I run the immersion heater from 7AM to 8AM. Both done with night rate electricity.

    Depending on the weather, the battery is topped up with daytime electricity, during the day. Daytime usage is cooking, dehumidifying and running an 800W electric heater in the living room until nightfall when a single charge in the wood stove takes over.

    At 9PM, the battery is emptied on an 800W to 2000W electric heater (depending on outside temperature) for one hour in a bedroom and some daytime electricity is used to finish heating the room.

    During the coldest month (January), daily consumption is an average of 20kWh with about 5kWh of that being night rate and the rest day rate. No peak rate.

    With the data above, and assuming Pinergy cannot be made to work for me, would dynamic pricing offer me any benefits.

    I am willing to offset usage to avoid any peak dynamic rates so long as I get 24 hours in advance. I can batch cook, shower whenever is best. At the moment I can't offset heating. However, I might get two secondhand storage heaters (about 100 euros each seems to be the average price) so I could "charge" them up on the night rate and switch them on as per the current schedule. I should probably be doing that already.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #155
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,766 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124169385#Comment_124169385

    Why can't you expand your 5kWh battery? Unless you have some proprietary / high voltage hardware, upgrading your home battery should be cheap and easy to do.

    Post edited by graememk on

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • #156
    JayBee66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 375 ✭✭JayBee66


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124169409#Comment_124169409

    After 17K of triple glazing, 8K of MVHR and 10K of PV, we are going to concentrate on internal insulation and re-doing the badly done attic insulation and cavity bead insulation. In another 4 years, the PV will have paid itself off. Just under left 4K to go. Then we will think of upgrading the PV.

    For now, we want to make the electricity usage as efficient as possible to make the most credit.

    Post edited by graememk on


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  • #157
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,766 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124169442#Comment_124169442

    So a question of money / priority? If I were you I would do some sums. It might turn out that a (DIY) battery upgrade has a higher return on investment than any of the other jobs you have done or plan to do. The current Pinergy plan is very profitable, but of course you need a decent size battery for it

    Even if you don't want to DIY, you could buy a fully built 15kWh battery for about €1500 and this could be added to your system in a few minutes if you have a standard 15S or 16S 48V battery setup

    At 5.98c / kWh incl VAT, electricity is very very cheap with Pinergy. A big battery lets you buy all you need or even more than you need, which you could sell back to the grid for more than 300% profit

    Post edited by graememk on

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • #158
    JayBee66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 375 ✭✭JayBee66


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124169488#Comment_124169488

    I'll give it some thought.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #159
    bullit_dodger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124169491#Comment_124169491

    While a lot of us are aware of the rough €/kwh etc, it's worth putting some figures on unkel's comments above.

    Take a 15kwh battery. Charge it at 5.98c/Kwh every night from empty to full. Then dump it at €0.24/kwh.

    Battery Charge cost per day = €0.0598 x 15 = 89.7c
    Discharge profit (export) per day = (€0.24 x 15) x 0.8 = €2.88.
    (FYI the 0.8 above is the fact that you lost 20% or so roundtripping through the battery)

    So profit per day is €2.88 - €0.897 = €1.98/day

    Therefore you are looking at ~€700 profit/year. This is the low end. Since the battery will also be saving you importing more expensive leccie, your over all savings is likely to be higher.

    Disclaimer: The Pinenergy rate is very good right now with 5.9c/kwh import and €0.24/kwh export. Who knows how long that will last, but even a much smaller differential (e.g. Energia) will still yield significant savings to make it worthwhile.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #160
    championc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭championc


    @JayBee66 "17K of triple glazing, 8K of MVHR and 10K of PV"

    Take each of these - how much will each save this year ? How much will internal insulation cost ?

    You are concerned about the return on investment for PV, but what is the projected RoI for your internal insulation ? What was it for your windows and MVHR ?

    Solar and batteries are the only thing which can not only reduce expenditure but actually generate income !!!

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #161
    JayBee66
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 375 ✭✭JayBee66


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124169596#Comment_124169596

    Well, comfort has to come first. Only then can we generate income. The triple glazing replaced very draughty plastic windows so there was a saving there. The MVHR has replaced draughty wall vents too.

    To paraphrase Eric Morecambe, we are doing all the right things. Not necessarily in the right order.

    Post edited by graememk on


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  • #162
    championc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,659 ✭✭✭championc


    20k net on a wrap would have fixed the draughts on windows and vents, and avoided the internal insulation

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #163
    discostu1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭discostu1


    Dr Paul Deane UCC explains Dynamic Pricing which comes in in June this year

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/dynamic-energy-pricing-2231071

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #164
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124214217#Comment_124214217

    Anything new in it?

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #165
    discostu1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭discostu1


    Essentially Paul is extremely cautious about this.Not the concept more if it will save money bar for the ultra committed. Callers/texters raised concerns as Claire said she currently put her dryer/washing machine on overnight. Heat pumps were spoken of in terms of TOU, Paul seemed to feel benefit if any would be marginal. My take is ge is saying let's see what it looks like, if you are going to go for it you need to be on the ball and very committed. One thing not mentioned was if you go on this can you revert?

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #166
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    In my opinion would be classed as a smart plan. so if your not on a smart plan you won't be able to go back to non smart.

    But will be able to change to any other smart plan..

    As for overnight running. Vs during the day. Unless you are sitting watching it for the full cycle is it going to make any difference?

    If it's running during the day, with the door to a utility room closed.. is that any different to being at night.

    Interlinked fire alarms so once one goes off they all do.

    I would agree to be extremely cautious about it, as currently looking at the wholesale rates, the early adopters, with big solar and battery systems, if we can't take advantage of it, nobody else will.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #167
    discostu1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭discostu1


    Paul's view is you will see the hourly rates for tomorrow, today , not sure what time. You then have to decide, my washing machine goes on at say 4am, the dryer probably same time ( if you have a load). You might want to cook your dinner before certainly more "normal times"... For most and the folks on this thread are probably a minority it sounds way too much work.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #168
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Yep, you can even see the day ahead wholesale rates now.

    The first people who will be able to take advantage of it, is people with batteries and automation.

    But currently the whole sale rates, are already ahead of the cheap EV rates.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #169
    dessertspoon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 ✭dessertspoon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124169526#Comment_124169526

    How to charge a 15kwh battery in the 3 hour EV rate window? Surely the battery BMS will set the max charge current too low at the lower and upper SOC states?

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #170
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124214694#Comment_124214694

    15kWh batteries can easily handle 200 amps DC, and 5kW is only 100 odd amps.

    The BMS won't need to slow the current at all

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #171
    dessertspoon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 ✭dessertspoon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124214714#Comment_124214714

    Humm…so you have a battery that allows 100A Charge current at 0% SOC?

    Post edited by graememk on


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  • #172
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124214751#Comment_124214751

    Yes, all mine do.. actually 200 amps and one I'd be happy to put 400 amps in and that would still only be 0.5c

    SoC is meaningless, what voltage is your "0%" SoC?

    LFP cells are under little to no stress in a residential solar setup.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #173
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    I think Paul is underestimating automation, and especially AI based decision-making. A relatively simple AI query which includes historical consumption data, external factors such as the weather forecast (for drying days) the capability of the battery and inverter and then the projected unit rates, will pay modest dividends in short enough order.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #174
    dessertspoon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 ✭dessertspoon


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124214882#Comment_124214882

    Well my Weco batteries only allow a 40-60A charge for the first hour or so until they heat up a bit. Then they allow full 100A charge. I would not be able to charge 15kwh of these in 3 hours.

    Am I or Weco doing something wrong?

    Thanks

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #175
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124216037#Comment_124216037

    Cold is different from voltage/SoC.. and weco could be on the conservative side too.

    But if you had 3 wecos it should allow 40*3, so 120, even when cold. As each battery only sees 1/3 of the current.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #176
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,766 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124214217#Comment_124214217

    Same old bullshit that came in when smart plans were first launched. Of course the benefits are not for people who have to change their whole lifestyle to make the most of cheaper tariffs. The benefits are there for people with battery systems.

    These can be programmed on an ancient laptop for free by AI to handle all this fully automated, but of course you need to get it setup yourself. In Ireland that is, in some other countries you can just buy a plug and play battery that does all this out of the box

    Post edited by graememk on

    "Make no mistake. The days of the internal combustion engine are definitely numbered" - Quentin Willson, 1997



  • #177
    ECO_Mental
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    Money to be made tonight and tomorrow if we had dynamic pricing…€0.006/kWh for the night and then €0.19 in the evening. Savage wind out there ..still the difference here is same as Pinergy…

    image.png
    Post edited by graememk on

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • #178
    AntonP
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭AntonP


    While their export is 25c and 3 hours cheap overnight … will be very difficult to best that. Wish it last a few more years to get the RoI asap.

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #179
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,108 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124169612#Comment_124169612

    triple glaze can cost you money over double. triple eliminates solar gain, where as double doesn't, so its worthwhile considering which one would actually be best for you

    Post edited by graememk on


  • #180
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124316437#Comment_124316437

    My take on that is… in Ireland solar gain is minimal in Winter where preventing heat loss is far more important, and it can be useful to have some resistance to Summer sun to prevent overheating. For that reason I went all in on triple, and I'm delighted with it.

    Post edited by graememk on


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  • #181
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124316445#Comment_124316445

    I've went triple too, didn't actually know about the solar gain aspect, with a bungalow with big windows facing SE and SW solar gain is a big thing in summer.

    Will be interesting when summer comes around

    (And winter sun isn't that common in the north west 😂)

    Post edited by graememk on


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