North Korea General Discussion.

That’s the interesting/horrendous thing about all of this. Some people in North Korea may be aware of the quality of life in the outside world, but quite a lot of others have been successfully encapsulated by the state. These poor folk might not even know what life is actually like over in nearby China. They might only know about their current lot in life, as limited as it is, and might not even know that escape could bring them a better quality of life….or ar least one that isn’t strictly regulated by Pyongyang.

I used to believe all the ‘horrifying stories’ in ‘our media’ about N. Korea too until not too long ago. Then I accidentally gained class consciousness. Once that happens you can see through the Western propaganda model effortlessly. There is a huge amount of human psychology behind this information war; it does work – but only works IMO because people don’t know they are on a battlefield when they switch on the 9pm news.

There are hundreds or thousands of N. Korean hostages held against their will for years & decades by ““Democratic”” S. Korea who want to return to their families in the North but they are forbidden by the puppet state.

Do you think a state that commits such sadistic cruelty are publishing anything but lies about N.Korea, given the US & its puppet state are still technically at war with Korea.

I've no problem using N.Korea -and generally do in most cases.

But, it absolutely is the puppet state (for S.Korea) for me.
Some people use Samsung Republic.

Of course they know. Same as everyone in Europe behind the Iron Curtain knew.

Chinese movies smuggled in on USB sticks are very popular in NK.

Been to GDR (in my political naif days) & Cuba so have first hand evidence how the US does hybrid class war.

The only way for tourists to get in to NK atm is to run the Pyongyang marathon (also has 5k, 10k, 21k options).
Plenty of videos online of 2025 tourists running it – its on again this April.
Here’s a tourist from Bulgaria who ran it last year.
She hugely enjoyed her trip and interacting as an equal with N.Koreans – but she is teflon to CIA NK propaganda so you probably won’t be interested in her experience.

I spoke to people in Cuba who expressed their exhaustion & enormous frustration with (and wanting) US sanctions & isolation ended. The same siege warfare sanctions are on NK.

Declassified CIA files from the 60s show that the purpose of the sanctions are to starve enough Cubans to death so that the rest overthrow the gov’t. Edit: Same as NK. Other than '92-'96, N.Korea has better malnutrition rates for years than dozens of countries around the world. There is little to no hunger for decades. Food sanctions were defeated long ago!

Is trying to starve millions of people to death why the West is supposedly the pinnacle of human civilisation in your view?

Or put another way, is trying to starve millions to death a policy you identify with or aspire to?

The Pyongyang Marathon is very similar to the fixed-itinerary state micro-managed tours of the city / North Korea you’d normally get the rest of the time, with the added twist of a city marathon at the end of it.

Seen a good few videos of last years for a gaggle of travel vloggers. Many are similar, but what perplexed me was how the trip cumulated with a massive drinking session the night before the race. That must have been a fun morning for some of them. Seems like something you’d do after running a marathon…not before…but that’s just me.

Keep in mind, pretty much anyone the international runners encounter on that marathon are part of the more privileged elements of North Korean society. They’ll be compliant to protect their status and by extension their skin. These are the people who get to live in Pyongyang due to their loyalty to the Kims, and these are the same people who are often used in external messaging to paper over the inequalities of everything else in that country.

I made an error alright and have edited it. 92-96 is known as the Arduous March in NK. The death toll is unknown but the Yeonmi Park /CIA exaggerations are what one would expect - just meme material. There were pockets of severe hunger at different times & places but few deaths.

Edit: Same as NK. Other than '92-'96, N.Korea has better malnutrition rates for years than dozens of countries around the world. There is little to no hunger for decades. Food sanctions were defeated long ago!

Problem with the "actual real life first hand experience" is that tourists visiting oppressive regimes like NK only get to see what the regime wants them to see

The sanctions argument is bollox. NK's best buddy is right next door, China (although even their patience with the disgusting antics of Kim can wear thin). Why would NK care about US sanctions, it's a far away country selling goods they can't afford. The reasons for NK's failures are entirely domestic.

And this is pretty much the M-O of the typical state-managed tours that North Korea used to host until they locked that down. (With the notable exception of the Pyongyang Marathon). From the moment you board the Air Koryo flight in Beijing, and up until you alight from the return flight you will be presented with Pyongyang's curated image of the state, and nothing else (at least not intentionally).

You are always part of a tour, and with the exception of a handful of perpared sitations movement is limited to the tour itself. State minders are provided to ensure this. Even the locals that tour groups get to talk with are not your typical North Koreans, and the few times I've seen travel-vloggers just chatting with random locals, it's almost always within Pyongyang where chances are that most locals are pro-regieme.

North Korea actually has «elections» every 5 years, and although their system of voting has the veneer of a democracy in practice it’s nothing of the sort.

Voting is manditory; everyone has to do it. Each ballot has a pre-approved candidate for any given district. There is the option to cross out the name of the candidate with a red pen to indicate disapproval, but doing so eliminates the voter’s anonymity and daring to actually do that likely results in serious consequences.

North Korea is even technically a multi-party state, with at least 2 other political parties who also get a share of seats. However in practice those other parties are automatically in coalition with the Worker’s Party of Korea and never stray from thier party line.

To a typical North Korean all of the above would appear to be a democracy…although for the rest of us we’d see it as a single-party dictatorship play acting as a Democracy in order to counter any suggestion that they are in fact a facist state focused on preserving the power of one family.